Should captain pay top out at 150K?

[STL717]

Wide body international captain pay should top out at $150,000 per a year in 1975 dollars!!!

 

[FBN0223]

When your resume looks like this: C-152,C-172,C-182,BE-90, RJ, Douglas bird. One may tend to set his career earning expectations on the low side. Mainly, one with such a limited resume would not comprehend the complexities and rigors that come with international flying as well as the great responsibilities that come with flight officer duty.

Those of us in the real world do understand. So..... Wide-body Captains 300k. FOs 175k. Narrow-body Captains 200k FOs 150k.

 

[pipejockey]

Dude, Point being, pilots have been on a shrinking iceberg for 30 years and we have to reverse the trend or we risk lowering our wages to that of truck drivers in a few years.
AA767AV8TOR

What are you talking about?? Every regional FO is already paid lower than many truck drivers, and also many regional captains. Many truck drivers are at 50-60 grand. But I see you are an AA aviator and from what I have heard from some Eagle folks, you guys don't consider rj pilots as real pilots.

But aside from that I agree with your post. Something needs to be done.

 

[hockeypilot44]

What are you talking about?? Every regional FO is already paid lower than many truck drivers, and also many regional captains. Many truck drivers are at 50-60 grand. But I see you are an AA aviator and from what I have heard from some Eagle folks, you guys don't consider rj pilots as real pilots.

But aside from that I agree with your post. Something needs to be done.

Regional first officers qualify for food stamps.

 

[800Dog]

Sorry but I think I'd be going to work while you were picketing.

So, 50 people would get to their destination. What a tool! Take it to the regional board.

 

[Giggity]

Instructordude's schtick is old, tired and played out. Yet some of you still fall for it.

Ten years ago, when airlines were hiring like mad and most of the threads on this site were about who was getting interviewed and hired, a buddy of mine confessed that he used to screw with people on here. He would come on here and let on like he was a young women and "she" would complain because United/US Airways/(insert desired major airline) turned "her" down for the second time and claim that "she" had 1500 hrs and 60 hrs of multi engine and isn't it an outrage that they wouldn't hire "her".

Then he would sit back and watch guys fall all over themselves berating "her" because they had 7600 hrs, 3300 hrs jet PIC and couldn't even get an interview and where did "she" get off complaining....and so on.......

That's what Instructor dude does and people still fall for it......He's laughing at you.

 

[xray678]

You're kidding right? How in the world are you going to get good mgt if you don't compensate them? I hear the guys from AIG will run your airline for next to nothing.

How in the world are you going to get good pilots if you don't compensate them?

 

[PurpleInMEM]

A 2nd year FedEx FO can come close to 150k....Shouldn't take 12 years..

Really? For some poor slob sitting reserve on the bottom of a widebody FO list that would work out to $169 per hour (based on 884 CH per year). That rate, according to the CBA doesn't come until year 15. The year-2 guy in the same situation would earn 119K, a far cry from 150. In order to earn 150K a year-2 pilot would have to get 1106 CH.

Now if you're the carryover whore, one of the Memphis Mafia, or a Cubicle Commando that might be a different story.

Not saying that there aren't FO's that "come close to 150K" in their second year, but it seems like they had to work extra to get it.

 

[jetflier]

Dude,

You’ve been listening to our company negotiator who said the exact same thing last spring. What you seem to forget is that while we’re still trying to live and pay bills on our 1993 pay wages, our esteemed management’s pay has risen over 900% since 2003.

Can you see the disconnect or do I need to explain it more in detail to you??!! This is especially obscene when our 2003 pay cuts were predicated on the “Share Sacrifice” and “Pulling Together, Winning Together.” We pulled, they won!

Point being, pilots have been on a shrinking iceberg for 30 years and we have to reverse the trend or we risk lowering our wages to that of truck drivers in a few years.

AA767AV8TOR

Good point,

When I was a Newbie on the property at NWA a Senior Captain told me that in the old days, a Senior Captain could buy a new Cadillac on a months take-home pay....today a new Cadillac costs about $50,000. Sooooo, gthe senior Captain grossed about $65,000 in today's dollars. Doing the math, the senior Captain grossed about $780,000 annual, adjusted for inflation.

Today's saleries pale by comparisson. We have only ourselvs to blame by accepting concessionary contracts.

The only question remaining is when will airline pilots draw the line in the sand....

 

[clickclickboom]

When you are young and single flying a jet making $60,000 a year and you have no family and no expenses it is sometimes hard to have the maturity to look ahead and see the realities that lie ahead.

I admit I had a year in my mid 20's that I made $100,000 flying and then made another $50,000 selling my first home, plus made another $10k or so in misc income. i thought I was loaded with so much cash I didnt know how to sepnd it all.

Last year I made $107K and with a wife and 3 kids I barely have enough to get by.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Anyone ever consider that the high salaries of times past were set a bit high due to the nature of the occupation? The captain and his crew (FO/FE) were operating in a more perilous environment due to the lack of technological advances we have now. Applicants who were qualified and willing to fly during that era were few and far between and were compensated accordingly.

There wasn't a surplus of pilots which we've seen over the last several decades. The existing GA population was much smaller and there weren't pilots mills either. In fact, at some point, the airlines were scooping up private pilots to fill the growing demand. A high salary (arbitrarily set based upon what they deemed was fit pay for the type of work being performed, along with the hazards, skill, judgement and nerves required) and the glamour that went with it helped attract more individuals to the profession.

As weather capabilites, radar and onboard technology improved, it alleviated a lot of the work required of a 3 man crew and the 2 pilot operation was eventually born. Airlines no longer wanted a side seat. Too expensive. Let a computer do it.

From here on in, the economic conventions of supply and demand have taken over and the industry has become whimsical to these governing forces.

There are plenty of pilots and there always will be. Perhaps we've seen a decline in certification at all levels, but aviation will ALWAYS have pilots willing to fly for nothing. It's something that most get involved in for the love of it.

The advent of airline travel has since past us. Those times provided for better pilot compensation due to the nature of job and the infancy of it. It was in a growth phase. Airlines initially even hired nurses to tend to the passengers concerns so as to encourage air travel.

Technological advancement (in safety, accuracy, cabability) has cummulatively eroded the salaries in a lot of industries, not just the airlines.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why should pilots be paid $150K today? Why did airline flying become a relatively high-paying job to begin with? Why should RJ pilots be paid 1/2 (or less) of what major pilots make for doing basically the same job?

Answer those questions and you'll see what's needed to increase pilot wages.

 

[ASADFW7]

This is the stupidest thread of the year nomination. What are we going to become socialists now?

 

[SIG600]

Last year I made $107K and with a wife and 3 kids I barely have enough to get by.

I have junior Sailors that work for me, that spend 8-9 months a year away from home, working 18 hour days for weeks on end, that make less than half of that and survive with a wife and 2-4 kids, and they do it with a smile and quiet professionalism.

You need to seriously reevaluate your standard of living vs. income if you're struggling on 107/year.

 

[febtober]

This is the stupidest thread of the year nomination. What are we going to become socialists now?

Actually the whole point of the union is socialism, the original poster is arguing against that.

 

[StarChecker]

I have junior Sailors that work for me, that spend 8-9 months a year away from home, working 18 hour days for weeks on end, that make less than half of that and survive with a wife and 2-4 kids, and they do it with a smile and quiet professionalism.

You need to seriously reevaluate your standard of living vs. income if you're struggling on 107/year.

Are you insane?

You're comparing the expenses full-time military guys have to the rest of us? Hardly a reasonable comparison.

Plus with JetBlue's out-of-pocket health care costs...$107,000 evaporates very quickly. Plus, our company is HQ'd in JFK...kind of expensive compared to your junior sailors.

Police officers on Long Island top out at $117,000 after 9 years with NO overtime. $107,000 might be great at some Navy base....but it's pocket change in the real world.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sorry but I think I'd be going to work while you were picketing.

Why am I NOT surprised.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Anyone ever consider that the high salaries of times past were set a bit high due to the nature of the occupation? The captain and his crew (FO/FE) were operating in a more perilous environment due to the lack of technological advances we have now. Applicants who were qualified and willing to fly during that era were few and far between and were compensated accordingly.

OK I don't know what your background is and I really don't care. I came to work at Continental at the end of the old school. Meaning I was a F/E and flew with some of the best pilots and finest gentlemen I have ever flown with, IE vintage 1960's (RCAL) OLD CAL.

Today flying B756 CA two pilot back and forth to Europe with no relief pilot (ie UK Specialist) is bar none the most unsafe flying I have done in my entire career. That includes a short leave of absence flying for Tower Air as a B747 FO flying non sked charter world wide operations.

You can take all the technological advances of modern aircraft and still doesn't compare to a three man crew, period.

By the way a wide body captain in 1977 flying for a top major earned around $125k per year. Run that though an inflation calculator and that runs well north of $400K today.

As the ALPA Captain Elect for Continental EWR Council 170 currently the largest single representational status council in ALPA.

My message to Mr. Kellner, F U PAY ME. If it takes a strike so be it! I demand a contract with massive gains in every section our Contract 08 to include real duty and trip rigs.

FYI Instructor Dude, please be man enough to identify yourself should you ever ask for my jumpseat as you will certainly be the very first pilot I will ever denied. I think you are in dire need of an old fashioned blanket party. Future Scab!

 

[xpdriver]

Instructordude is the type of person(nerd) that wears his uniform to kroger and the gym on his off days....Nice tom cruise sunglasses

 

[Tanker Clown]

How in the world are you going to get good pilots if you don't compensate them?

Let's face it, flying is a blue collar job. For every SWA/Fed Ex/Insert Good Paying Airline here, there are 10 guys at regionals willing to do the same job for less...and probably do it just as well. There's also a ton of guys retiring out of the military with a retirement check also willing to do it cheaper will for sure do it at least better than a regional guy.

The job just isn't that hard. A doctor can rent a plane and fly on the weekend...and he makes $200k. Can you do open heart surgery on the weekend?