Screw this industry?

[enigma]

If I had it to do over again, I'd take a job watching a machine make plastic before I'd take an airline pilot job. To each his own, but I value home time much more than I value getting to wear four stripes. My wife and kids have suffered from my absence. We're doing alright, but there is no subsitute for time spent with your family.

regards,

enigma

 

[matchthehatch]

It's easy to tell who has children and who doesn't. It's also easy to tell who has suffered through furloughs, job loss, etc... and who hasn't. I remember my first flying job. After the first week, I remember thinking "I can't believe I get paid to do this". After a month, I remember thinking "I can't believe how little I get paid to do this".

 

[learflyer]

I'm glad someone else started this thread, because i'm looking to get out too! Even the fractional
lifestyle blows. I'm going back to school. Time to become one of those people in the back of a frac jet instead of in the front.

 

[350DRIVER]

Time to become one of those people in the back of a frac jet instead of in the front.

well said... I never met any pilots that were the pax aboard those aircraft. It is much better to fly for fun anyways versus having to do it to put food on the table, if I had to do it all again I would have surely done things differently. Most of the people I know feel the exact same way, too bad one cannot re-write history.

3 5 0

 

[JohnDoe]

Flychicaga:
"How about hearing the other side of it, with people who have managed to bide well balancing a flying career and a loving family? "

Sorry.....but unless you are senior in your position and live in your domicile, there will be no balancing time with a loving family, and even if you are, it still is not a sure thing. You WILL be missing out on alot of that "quality" family time.

I know, I know. Some here are going to jump on me for "smashing" the hopes and dreams of the wannabe's in this profession, and that I'm just jaded with a bad attitude. But that is the reality of it.

 

[climbhappy]

check six, a word of caution.

Check six,

quote: (paraphrase) I actuallly sit at my desk and figure out how much it would cost to start a part 135 with a lear..........................

I was a former small operator (135) and can share the following. airplanes are expensive to operate,maintain and insure. To afford the insurance alone might make it cost prohibitive. Asa pilot, i learned that the more the business grew, the less i could fly. Here's the big one. With one plane and no other revenue stream such as being an fbo with maint, gas sales, hangar rent, flight instr, etc, i don't think the numbers can work in charter. basically, and i have spoken to folks all over the country, you'd have to fly a lear around 450 to 500 hours. that seldom happens in the charter business, especially a small one plane operator.

A freind of mine once said, when people get around airplanes, it is as if they take a DUMB pill!

 

[check six]

ClimbHappy,

Thanks for the caution. It just seemed like the 135 I worked out was making out pretty good but I never saw the numbers. I recall Warren Buffet saying that investing in the airlines could be called temporary insanity. But then again he has some big money invested in Net jets. The only guy I ever thought was a great businessman in aviation was Herb Kelleher. Neeleman is somewhat impressive but it's too early to tell if his plan is for short term profits or JetBlue can sustain over the long haul like Southwest has. Nothing against Neeleman, but it's a little different animal to manage with new jets and low labor costs than legacy hub and spoke carriers.

 

[SMMustang]

datafox,


I'm furloughed from a legacy carrier, and had a couple interviews at a LCC, but to be honest with God and myself, my heart really wasn't in it. I didn't do any prep, I just went with a 'let's see what happens' type attitude. Needless to say there were people there who were prepared to show they were much more qualified than I was. To work for a LCC, was a li'l too much work for what I aspired to. I wanted more time at home. I flew commuters at a regional, I know how tough the airline industry can be.

I never fully got out of the AF, I'm still a Reservist, and I work as much as I want for the most part. I'm happy, but not rich. I miss my legacy job, but not the commuter. Even when I do go back, I most likely will play the Military card to cancel one trip a month just to go do mil and be home at night.

BIG THING IS, if you are under 35, I'd really think about another industry. Mesa getting 737s is a HUGE indicator of things to come. There are plenty of people who absolutely love this job and would do it for almost free. I'm just not one of them, but those people will be flying MESA 737s. Eventually, SWA will be the highest paid and then go through a bankruptcy because their paywages are too high. It won't happen in my career, but under 30, I'm not sure.

 

[datafox]

Some really interesting comments, and I appreciate everyone that has responded.

I think the "doomsday" scenario of the LCCs, Mesa's and other "low income" companies is unfortunately upon us. The question is, how low will we go?

When I began the airline industry several years ago, things were booming and senior airline captains at the legacy carriers were making GOOD money.

While I know the industry goes through extreme cycles, the development and success of LCCs has changed the payscales of pilots. When the industry takes an upswing will pilots then fight tooth and nail to get their old school salaries back? I'm guessing here (and this is nothing more than a guess) that the days of pilots making $250K-$300K when they are senior are over. The industry is changing and becoming, in my view, a Greyhound bus with wings. Actually, do Greyhound drivers make $18K their first year? Probably not.

Anyway, it is a tough call. I love to fly, but if I'm not going to make that great salary when this is all said and done then is it really worth it? I could stay at home now with my family (which is worth a lot in itself) and eventually (potentially) make what I would with an LCC. Sure, for the next few years I'll be at a low payscale, but that family time is super important. Will I miss flying big-tin? Absolutely...

 

[climbhappy]

Datafox,

aviation is a mature industry and in mature industries, wages come down. It's a fact. it's here to stay .
Having said that, you must look at the this personally, not at large. Age, status, spouse etc all matter, so one must access it on their own barometer and go with the gut. If you ain't makin squat, and you've just been bumped off a flight commuting home, you ask youself, is it worth it?

 

[TexaSWA]

It would be interesting to compare who is happy and who is not prefaced with who they fly for.

 

[LEROY]

Depressing

I just finished reading this thread cover-to-cover, and I'm inclined to be pretty depressed. But aren't these collective sentiments universal to any job? Doesn't any form of work kinda suck for some reason or another? The 9 to 5 job is great for weekends and holidays, birthdays, graduations, etc., but wouldn't it be cool to get about a week (or two or three depending on seniority) off EVERY month, versus the deskjob-standard two weeks per year? I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy doing your work WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. Maybe I'm woefully childish about all this (which is entirely possible), but isn't it at all rewarding to fly and make money at the same time?

Someone made the analogy of a Greyhound bus with wings. I have to say I don't agree with the analogy. Everyone can and does drive a car to work; almost anyone could get a license to drive a bus (to work). Ask yourself how many people you know who fly a plane to work. If the idea of flying is boring or unfulfilling, then yes, I would say get away from this profession fast. But personally, I consider a paying flying job to be right up there with that of a professional athlete. I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine Derek Jeter, or even the first year rookie, second-guessing his career move because of all the days he spends away from his own bed. They do it because they get to do what they love to do, AND they get paid to do it.

BTW I am all too familiar with family separation, and if that is a deal-breaker for you, then I agree this is the wrong profession until you are senior enough to control it. But having managed 6+ month separations without cell phones or email, I can say I certainly don't mind a few days or weeks away at a time.

I suppose "the grass is always greener" could be applied anywhere, it just seems a little depressing that it is already applying in this profession. Just my thoughts...

 

[ShadowFlight]

Grass isn't always greener...

Granted the airline pilot career is tough, be careful what you ask for. Working a desk job is not all that great. I did it for over 5 years. Stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic with all the people headed to their 8-5 job, having to deal with idiot management types (the airlines don't have the exclusive to politics and stupid management), co-workers undermining others, stuck in a windowless cube staring at a computer screen all day or answering the phone 100 times a day listening to customers complain/whine or dealing less than honorable co-workers. Sure, you're home with family every night but being tied to a desk, at least for me, is not the way to live life.

I'm on reserve and will continue to bid that so I will not get burned out flying and being gone all the time. Reserve allows me to work my office job part-time. When I get tired of sitting in a cube, I go fly. When I'm tired of flying, I go back to the office cube. I like both jobs and it works for me. Everyone is different and all jobs require sacrifice.

If you are unhappy with your choice, change it! People today change jobs, on average, about every 5 years. Nothing says you have to remain an airline pilot forever. We all have the power to make a change.

Life is too short to be miserable.

Peace

SF

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Data,

After military retirement I went to work for BizEx and after two years, life really sucked. I swore I'd never go back to the airline business. Flew helicopters for a few years, then got a job with the Feds. After 4 1/2 yrs, the politics got too much and this job with an LCC fell into my lap. Things for me have been great. Family should be number 1. I was fortunate to have been around for my kids to grow up. Both are teenagers and doing well. They understand why and what I do and are happy when I'm home. This career has it's ups and downs. With that said, try to make the best of your time home (quality is in many cases better than quantity) and do your best to tolerate your profession. You, like the rest of us, have problably put in too much time and money into a dream we once had. Do your best to hang in there and try to find some bright spots about your job. Best of Luck!

 

[flyingitalian]

OH MY GOD! I can believe all the b!itching going on in this thread! Sounds to me like you people never had a job in your life except flying. College to regional or service to airline. Get your collective heads out from where the sun does not shine and remember life is what you make it. My father had nothing to do with aviation and he was gone to work before I got up and was home maybe a few min. before I went to bed. He went out on extended trips, and occasionally had my uncle take me on a camp out that he could not make. He is a good man because when he was home he spent time and gave his full attention to me. He taught me to work hard and always go the extra mile. Most of the Dads in my neighborhood would kill for my schedule because I can actually be home for a few weekdays in a row, have lunch with my daughter at school, walk my kids to school, pick them up, go to practice and do the things they would love to do, but cant because they ARE WORKING!!!!! They are gone before the kids get up and get home when the kids are in bed five days a week. Is that being home? You got to be kidding me. Then on the weekend its a meeting on Saturday or a party saturday night that takes half the day and kissing the bosses A$$, please people wake up! The opportunity before you is infinite. The schedule is good, 8 days or more off and you are home more than the rest of the world. You know what ,forget all I said and get the he!! out, quite the boo-hooing already and leave the industry.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Thank God there's hope - I was beginning to get nervous!

 

[ATRCAPT]

Screw this industry

...I should have been a rock star...

 

[B-atch]

Airline carreer

Airline carreer.... " Highly over-rated...Similar to eating large amounts of chocolat" This business has gone to the dogs... The price tag on a pilot has gone from "DEPARTMENT STORE to FLEA MARKET price" and it ain't gonna get better!!! If you compare the time invested in this carreer in order to reach the big $$, you are better off betting on a different field.....BY the way, has anyone seen Boeing's project after the 7e7....It's a SINGLE PILOT FLIGHT DECK.... OH OH it sounds like this profession is about to join the EXTINCT list in a few years...GOOD luck, we are all going to need it.... and thats just my 2 cents

 

[taxicabdriver]

But personally, I consider a paying flying job to be right up there with that of a professional athlete.

I think thats what I want to do next.

 

[learflyer]

I consider a paying flying job to be right up there with that of a professional athlete. I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine Derek Jeter, or even the first year rookie, second-guessing his career move because of all the days he spends away from his own bed. They do it because they get to do what they love to do, AND they get paid to do it.

Leroy, people in MLB or other sports sacrifice a few years away from home so they can be set for life.
Are you forgetting we don't make $60,000 per day like Derek Jeter does? When I signed on at Raytheon Travel Air, I didn't get a signing bonus worth 6.5 million with incentives that I upgrade within a year. No, flying for a living is NOT like being a pro athlete.