Screw this industry?

[FlyChicaga]

This thread is so f*cking depressing. How about hearing the other side of it, with people who have managed to bide well balancing a flying career and a loving family? I would hate to sit behind a friggin desk. That sucks. My only other idea of a job would be law enforcement. But even that has it's effects on a family. There just really isn't any solution is there? Maybe the solution is to do what you love so you don't come home pissed off that you must work at a rat-ass office job for a pr*ck boss to make ends meet when 10 years ago you were flying along with your nose pressed to the glass watching the world go by.

Face it: Work sucks at any job. Might as well have a little bit of fun along the way.

 

[Mach 80]

A lot of luck involved. Get hired at a secure relatively fast growing airline and get up in seniority quickly and before ya know it, you're a Captain flying Tuesday thru Thursday and/or you always get the days off you want and have great job security i.e Southwest.


Follow "traditional" advice, be more concerned what Kit Darby says with such things as calling USAir "THE airline to go to to work for" and "avoid '2nd tier' airlines like Southwest if you have a choice" and also not check debt to equity ratios and get hired at airline that you think will afford you a "guaranteed retirement plan" and next thing ya know there is no growth, no upward movement in seniority, then you are part of a bankrupt airline, and then finally you are laid off.

 

[Flyoa1]

Switch to the "dark side" and go work for the FAA. Its not that bad! Home at night, good pay, bennies and you still get to fly occasionally.

 

[prahler]

I'm leaving a good paying desk job right now to go to a regional. I had a long talk with my wife and I guess I'm lucky because she has always supported me in everything I do. At one point I had the same thought as flychicaga (police officer gig). I had tested at 6 departments in my area and made the lists. But in the end all I really want to do is fly. I know I'm just getting started in this industry, but I just try to keep a positive attitude.

prahler

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
This tread strikes home! My best friend from college had some insight to this issue. Her father was a UAL DC-10 CPT. I remember her lamenting the missed holidays, birthdays and other family occasions that were missed. She especially hated the domicile changes, she would just start having fun with the new friends she just made and wham "the move" and starting all over again. She has a love hate relationship with her father, she still has negative feelings toward Her father's career choice and and the impact it had on her life. She is my age, 40ish and has mellowed with time but still has those unhappy memories. When she found out I was going into the airline industry, she smiled and said good luck. This industry caused my 10+ year relationship to fail, 340+ TAFB schedules, early starts, late finishes, timezone shuffling all contributed to the failure. This industry will test the strongest of relationships to the breaking point.
Good Luck
PBR

 

[enigma]

If I had it to do over again, I'd take a job watching a machine make plastic before I'd take an airline pilot job. To each his own, but I value home time much more than I value getting to wear four stripes. My wife and kids have suffered from my absence. We're doing alright, but there is no subsitute for time spent with your family.

regards,

enigma

 

[matchthehatch]

It's easy to tell who has children and who doesn't. It's also easy to tell who has suffered through furloughs, job loss, etc... and who hasn't. I remember my first flying job. After the first week, I remember thinking "I can't believe I get paid to do this". After a month, I remember thinking "I can't believe how little I get paid to do this".

 

[learflyer]

I'm glad someone else started this thread, because i'm looking to get out too! Even the fractional
lifestyle blows. I'm going back to school. Time to become one of those people in the back of a frac jet instead of in the front.

 

[350DRIVER]

Time to become one of those people in the back of a frac jet instead of in the front.

well said... I never met any pilots that were the pax aboard those aircraft. It is much better to fly for fun anyways versus having to do it to put food on the table, if I had to do it all again I would have surely done things differently. Most of the people I know feel the exact same way, too bad one cannot re-write history.

3 5 0

 

[JohnDoe]

Flychicaga:
"How about hearing the other side of it, with people who have managed to bide well balancing a flying career and a loving family? "

Sorry.....but unless you are senior in your position and live in your domicile, there will be no balancing time with a loving family, and even if you are, it still is not a sure thing. You WILL be missing out on alot of that "quality" family time.

I know, I know. Some here are going to jump on me for "smashing" the hopes and dreams of the wannabe's in this profession, and that I'm just jaded with a bad attitude. But that is the reality of it.

 

[climbhappy]

check six, a word of caution.

Check six,

quote: (paraphrase) I actuallly sit at my desk and figure out how much it would cost to start a part 135 with a lear..........................

I was a former small operator (135) and can share the following. airplanes are expensive to operate,maintain and insure. To afford the insurance alone might make it cost prohibitive. Asa pilot, i learned that the more the business grew, the less i could fly. Here's the big one. With one plane and no other revenue stream such as being an fbo with maint, gas sales, hangar rent, flight instr, etc, i don't think the numbers can work in charter. basically, and i have spoken to folks all over the country, you'd have to fly a lear around 450 to 500 hours. that seldom happens in the charter business, especially a small one plane operator.

A freind of mine once said, when people get around airplanes, it is as if they take a DUMB pill!

 

[check six]

ClimbHappy,

Thanks for the caution. It just seemed like the 135 I worked out was making out pretty good but I never saw the numbers. I recall Warren Buffet saying that investing in the airlines could be called temporary insanity. But then again he has some big money invested in Net jets. The only guy I ever thought was a great businessman in aviation was Herb Kelleher. Neeleman is somewhat impressive but it's too early to tell if his plan is for short term profits or JetBlue can sustain over the long haul like Southwest has. Nothing against Neeleman, but it's a little different animal to manage with new jets and low labor costs than legacy hub and spoke carriers.

 

[SMMustang]

datafox,


I'm furloughed from a legacy carrier, and had a couple interviews at a LCC, but to be honest with God and myself, my heart really wasn't in it. I didn't do any prep, I just went with a 'let's see what happens' type attitude. Needless to say there were people there who were prepared to show they were much more qualified than I was. To work for a LCC, was a li'l too much work for what I aspired to. I wanted more time at home. I flew commuters at a regional, I know how tough the airline industry can be.

I never fully got out of the AF, I'm still a Reservist, and I work as much as I want for the most part. I'm happy, but not rich. I miss my legacy job, but not the commuter. Even when I do go back, I most likely will play the Military card to cancel one trip a month just to go do mil and be home at night.

BIG THING IS, if you are under 35, I'd really think about another industry. Mesa getting 737s is a HUGE indicator of things to come. There are plenty of people who absolutely love this job and would do it for almost free. I'm just not one of them, but those people will be flying MESA 737s. Eventually, SWA will be the highest paid and then go through a bankruptcy because their paywages are too high. It won't happen in my career, but under 30, I'm not sure.

 

[datafox]

Some really interesting comments, and I appreciate everyone that has responded.

I think the "doomsday" scenario of the LCCs, Mesa's and other "low income" companies is unfortunately upon us. The question is, how low will we go?

When I began the airline industry several years ago, things were booming and senior airline captains at the legacy carriers were making GOOD money.

While I know the industry goes through extreme cycles, the development and success of LCCs has changed the payscales of pilots. When the industry takes an upswing will pilots then fight tooth and nail to get their old school salaries back? I'm guessing here (and this is nothing more than a guess) that the days of pilots making $250K-$300K when they are senior are over. The industry is changing and becoming, in my view, a Greyhound bus with wings. Actually, do Greyhound drivers make $18K their first year? Probably not.

Anyway, it is a tough call. I love to fly, but if I'm not going to make that great salary when this is all said and done then is it really worth it? I could stay at home now with my family (which is worth a lot in itself) and eventually (potentially) make what I would with an LCC. Sure, for the next few years I'll be at a low payscale, but that family time is super important. Will I miss flying big-tin? Absolutely...

 

[climbhappy]

Datafox,

aviation is a mature industry and in mature industries, wages come down. It's a fact. it's here to stay .
Having said that, you must look at the this personally, not at large. Age, status, spouse etc all matter, so one must access it on their own barometer and go with the gut. If you ain't makin squat, and you've just been bumped off a flight commuting home, you ask youself, is it worth it?