Screw this industry?

[skyward80]

A few posts ago, somebody stated that we should ask who's happy and who's not happy prefaced by the question of who a person flies for. I think a better question would be to ask who is married and who has a family, then ask the question of whether that person is happy or not. I think it's hard for people with significant others and/or kids to be happy in this industry due to its volatility (not to mention the working schedules). Stability in work life reduces stress which translates to reduced stress in the home life. Being in the military (former civilian), I am reminded every day that the folks going through flight training around me who are married are going through a much more difficult version of training than I am. It's tough to juggle a family and work. Of course, the flip side of that is that you have your own personal support team waiting for you at home every evening.

For the single people, nobody is keeping you in this industry. I'll take your seat when I go on reserve status if you don't want it.

I think there is something to be said for the joy of flying. To me there's nothing better than being at the controls of an eager machine, taking off into the crap, and breaking out of the soup high above rush hour traffic. There's that rush and sensation of speed as you plow through the clouds. There are the infinitely beautiful sunrises and sunsets seen from the best seat in the house. You fly over mega-cities in the east, farms in the midwest, and high mountain peaks in the west. In a way, pilots are the luckiest group of people on the planet. Maybe industry volatility, schedules, and management are just a penance we must pay for a life we love.

Just my .00000000002.

Skyward80

 

[FlyingFarmer]

FlyingItalian

FI,

I won't bother to quote what you said, and I'll try to keep my insults to a minimum, but it
would appear you're a rookie, or, even worse, as you said "8 days off" (or more) you might
perhaps be Mesa trash, with the long sideburns, and your baggie clothes, and hat pulled down
over your overly large ears, which means you're just plain stupid. You know, as a matter of fact,
as I sit here, trying to figure this out, I think I'm getting the picture on you, you probably have
"My other Car is a Cessna" on your license plate, don't you. Or if you are an airline guy, you probably
like to pick up your kids with the old uniform on, to, you know, impress the teachers, or maybe
your just one of those trolls who always wanted to fly but......blah blah blah, OTOH, you could
also be a management plant/troll, sitting in your office trying to dream up ways to skrew with people
who's lunch you're not qualified to carry across the street, which, trust me, is what we really think of
all you office dwellers, as I ponder the implications I'm struck that this is indeed the most likely scenario. Whatever the case, I don't really care, but I do think that you should do some simple
math to better educate yourself. I did, after all, say that I was going to keep the insults to a
bare minimum. So allow me to press on.

Most people work 9-5, 5 days a week, they spend 160 hours away from home a month, OK- let's
round that up to 200 for "@ss kssing" at parties and other misc. functions. So that's 200 hours away from home a month. Now, let's look at an average airline sched. for most of us. The average in the industry is between 10 and 15 days off a month so let's say...heck, let's be generous and say 13 days off. That means
we are away from home for 17 days a month. Multiply that by 24 and you have 408. Now add in reccurret, initial, transition, upgrade, junior man, reassignments, bidding and adjusting scheds, etc, and, well, fine, I'll be
generous, maybe you're senior and do mostly 1 day trips, fine, say......400 hours a month away from home.

2400 extra hours away from home a year. Weekends, nights, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years,
(get the picture?)

Go back to getting that flourescent light tan you jagoff wannabe, the real pilots on here know you're a
dumb@ss. OTOH, if you really do fly the line for a living, 99% of your peers will agree with ME, and not with
you. So what does that say about you then? Don't know? Well, I'll tell you "Italian", it means that you....

"Capisce un cazzo solo"

Go play on another board FI, or do those initials stand for Fkin' Impersonator.


-FF

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Moderator!!!!!!!!???????????

Moderator!

I just tried to edit this post.....10 minutes?
I can only edit for 10 minutes? WTFO? I wanted
to delete all the insults. They just cancelled my
junior man. I'm off for the weekend! Whoopee!

Man I love being an airline pilot!

-FF

 

[Ty Webb]

Flychicaga:
"How about hearing the other side of it, with people who have managed to bide well balancing a flying career and a loving family? "

Sorry.....but unless you are senior in your position and live in your domicile, there will be no balancing time with a loving family, and even if you are, it still is not a sure thing. You WILL be missing out on alot of that "quality" family time.

Man, you guys are killing me. I don't know who you guys are working for, but even AirTran doesn't keep me gone that much! I average 17 days off. I commute in on day 1, home on the last day. Hardly work a weekend or a holiday anymore . . . Sleep 20-21 nights in my own bed. Sure, I could make a lot more money at some other carriers, but money isn't everything . . . .

As for family time, let's see, in the past year, we have done or have planned:

1) Rocky Mountain National Park for a week
2) 4 day Colorado ski trip with my 11 year-old son
3) spent 10 days with extended family over Memorial Day
4) spending a week on a lake in North Woods with my wife's family in July
5) 20th High school reunion in my hometown in late July
5) Thanksgiving week in my hometown with extended family
6) Christmas with wife's family
7) several weekend camping trips

I think I spend more time with my family than many management/engineering types.

 

[satpak77]

FlyingItalian

is what I call someone who "just dont get it"

The fact of life is 90% of society, besides police, firefighters, hospital workers, etc, work 9 to 5 M-F, with major holidays off.

I would argue those of us who make $120,000 a year but have this "airline lifestyle" would leave if we could find a secure job paying 90,000 a year but meeting a "normal schedule" such as M-F.

Being "off" Tuesday to Thursday, flying all weekend, then working all Christmas's and SuperBowl Sundays for my first 3-5 years as a junior guy are not appealing to me to say the least.

I for one was never someone to introduce myself as "Hey, my name is Joe, I am an airline pilot", so my work does not define who I am. I go to work so I have money when I go home. Flying is cool, its neat, its fun, all that warm fuzzy stuff, but lets be realistic. It can suck at times.

Fortunately alot of us (me included) have outside interests and hobbies and do not wear our pilot uniform to the mall in hopes of someone validating us.

 

[Ty Webb]

The average in the industry is between 10 and 15 days off a month so let's say...heck, let's be generous and say 13 days off. That means
we are away from home for 17 days a month.

I hope this isn't true! I don't know about other airlines, but at Airtran, most lines show around 270 hours TAFB and the vast majority of them are 14-16 days off and around 82 hours credit.

 

[Flywrite]

Satpak, I have to ask why someone with a civilian background, flying a twin turboprop lists "Aircraft Commander" as his current position?

No offence intended, but having that in your profile makes you sound like a uniform-to-the-mall kind of guy...


On another note, why does everyone assume that a non-flying job means sitting at a desk from 9-5? There are other options out there.

 

[satpak77]

flywrite


good question, my flight dept calls Captains "aircraft commanders"

not my idea, the CP's

oh well, the check comes on time

see ya

 

[Flywrite]

Ahh..I see. CP's sometimes can't leave well enough alone, can they?

 

[flyingitalian]

Flyingfarmer et al,

Just so you know, since college - 10 years in the outside world - 5 years at a regional - and now 3 years at a major. I switched because I loved flying and have a supporting (dont read financial, she has always been a stay at home mom since we have had kids) wife. I made the switch when my daughter was 9 months old. I now have two kids and still have my wife who loves my schedule in flying vs. my other life. If you have to do math to try to make your point you just missed it. If you have to try to convince youself that your job is so stressful then you have not lived and worked in an outside job making a salary that has surpassed your ability outside aviation, or have not accomplished the opposite. It took me 8 years to equal my outside life salary and I loved every min. of it. I live in an upper income neighborhood and every other wife my wife hangs out with is jealous of my schedule. You want to make the upper income level you put the time in, but hey dont take my word for it. Leave and go do it. By the way, I fly for me not the image you think people think of you when you wear the uniform. I have never worn my uniform to anything but the airport. I feel sorry for you in a way because you will never be truely happy with your head hanging down low feeling sorry for yourself. You will never reach la dolche vida.

ciao

 

[Ty Webb]

Fortunately alot of us (me included) have outside interests and hobbies and do not wear our pilot uniform to the mall in hopes of someone validating us.

Or, in hopes of getting some sort of discount!

 

[saabcaptain]

you are not crazy. for me flying is in my blood. i know i would not be a good friend / husband / family member if i was regretting leaving, and so for me i am sticking out this industry and happy to do it. however family is #1, and if you aren't happy, if they aren't happy... never look back. do what is right by them and your heart.

 

[Flywrite]

Or, in hopes of getting some sort of discount!

Now THAT is the voice of a professional pilot!

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Agreed, and yet......

FI,

I would imagine that this fall unders the category of your mileage may vary.
I'm glad your living the dream. I really am, but after living through two
furloughs from real "majors" please allow me to admit that I'm more than slightly
burnt. I do the job because I love it, not because at this point I have to. I'm
basically in it for the bennies, but that doesn't mean that I don't get pissed at
the scheds. or whatever, and then when I hear you say how good you have it,
well forgive me and maybe some others when we hear your stories. I can imagine
you and yours down at the Stepford country club in CLT, DFW or ATL or wherever,
telling all the Caddies and the ladies auxiliary club how good you have it. So
they send their kids to the megabuck flight schools and have them pay for
training so they can "live the dream" that you are spinning. Which contributes to
your future demise.

Keep talking "Dolce Vita", but if you ask me, your heading for the "Vida Loco",
and just for the record, I make more than my "salary" at my side business', so
I'll compare my life to yours in Upper Sloburbia any day.

And as for Ty Webb, darn it, I knew I should have gone to Valu-Jet
when I had the chance, but NOOooooo, I wanted to live in base.
and one more thing Ty, include your reserves and then see what you
come up with. I wish my current employer viewed commuters like
your company.

-FF

 

[johnny taliban]

test test

 

[flyingitalian]

FI,

I can imagine you and yours down at the Stepford country club in CLT, DFW or ATL or wherever,
telling all the Caddies and the ladies auxiliary club how good you have it.
-FF

You are bitter. You think your two furlough story from real "major" airlines is anything that is unique to our industry? Take a second and stop boo-hooing long enough look around a little. Lots of people are out of work that were making a hell of a lot more money than you and I and there is no work. Jobs have been eliminated and people are working harder and harder to make a living. Friends of our in oil and gas was out of work and fell back on his carpentry skills to feed his family. Other are still out of work. You dont here them b!tching and moaning about how their industry sucks, they just tough it out and keep going.

Your story is starting to sound like a load of bull.

As far as the country club goes, that is a good one. The only reson my wife ever steps foot on a country club is when her band is working at one. Hopefully its New Years Eve because then I get to go too. And yes I have actually managed to get off, wow what an accomplishment or some sort of miracle in your world. We are thankful of our good fortune, we are generous to church and charity, and most of all we are modest. Its because my wife is so cheep that I was able to number one make the switch and number two live the life I live.

You are probably a real joy to fly with. Get your head out from you know where, pull yourself up and get it done. Take advantage of the opportunities before you. No one ever said it was easy or did not take sacrifice and good judgement. If getting it done means leaving the industry then do it already.

 

[johnny taliban]

FI,

after living through two
furloughs from real "majors" please allow me to admit that I'm more than slightly
burnt. And as for Ty Webb, darn it, I knew I should have gone to Valu-Jet
when I had the chance, but NOOooooo, I wanted to live in base.

-FF

well, maybe on day your "real" major will hire you back.

Johnny

 

[OldManPilot]

What a bunch of cry babies. Thankfully, most pilots are as passionate about their flying as they are about their families. There is room for both. My love for my job and flying makes me a happier person which reflects directly on how my family views me and how I treat my family. If you cannot do both then by all means leave, get out, go away, adios. There are way to many that have the same feeling that I do for you to waste all of our time with your cry baby attitude. Suck a bottle, change your diaper or whatever it takes, but stop your crying!!!!!

 

[Purple Haze]

A bad day flying is better than a good day in any office. I have been with my employer for a whopping 2 years, 3 months. In the first six months of 2004, I will have had 99 days off (16.5 average) - this includes vacation time. This is 99 days with no phone calls from work, never stopping by the office, no performance reports to write or any other garbage to bring home. Work stays at work. 99 days off is 99 days that my family gets to have me -- all of me, without strings attached. I'm not sure where you can have that. An office job is like voluntary prison. Granted, a flying job is not all roses, but I shudder at the alternatives.

If you would be happy doing something else, you and I are not alike. Good luck to you.

 

[LivingToFly]

Wow. I've never seen so many depressos in one place. And I'm sure everyone on this thread is just a ball to fly with.

This is like anything else in life...it all depends on your attitude and perspective. Some people don't know what they have til it's gone. Try getting sent to Iraq for 6 months, then maybe your 3 day trips around the country having to stay at the Hilton won't seem so bad. Try losing your medical certificate and maybe you'll realize how lucky you once were...every contrail in the sky will remind you of what you once had.

Are there positives and negatives to this career...of course there are. Your happiness will be based on which you decide to focus on. If you can't bring yourself to look at the positives, maybe this career just isn't for you...or maybe you just won't know what you got til it's gone.