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Screw this industry?
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Depressing
I just finished reading this thread cover-to-cover, and I'm inclined to be pretty depressed. But aren't these collective sentiments universal to any job? Doesn't any form of work kinda suck for some reason or another? The 9 to 5 job is great for weekends and holidays, birthdays, graduations, etc., but wouldn't it be cool to get about a week (or two or three depending on seniority) off EVERY month, versus the deskjob-standard two weeks per year? I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy doing your work WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. Maybe I'm woefully childish about all this (which is entirely possible), but isn't it at all rewarding to fly and make money at the same time?
Someone made the analogy of a Greyhound bus with wings. I have to say I don't agree with the analogy. Everyone can and does drive a car to work; almost anyone could get a license to drive a bus (to work). Ask yourself how many people you know who fly a plane to work. If the idea of flying is boring or unfulfilling, then yes, I would say get away from this profession fast. But personally, I consider a paying flying job to be right up there with that of a professional athlete. I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine Derek Jeter, or even the first year rookie, second-guessing his career move because of all the days he spends away from his own bed. They do it because they get to do what they love to do, AND they get paid to do it.
BTW I am all too familiar with family separation, and if that is a deal-breaker for you, then I agree this is the wrong profession until you are senior enough to control it. But having managed 6+ month separations without cell phones or email, I can say I certainly don't mind a few days or weeks away at a time.
I suppose "the grass is always greener" could be applied anywhere, it just seems a little depressing that it is already applying in this profession. Just my thoughts...
I just finished reading this thread cover-to-cover, and I'm inclined to be pretty depressed. But aren't these collective sentiments universal to any job? Doesn't any form of work kinda suck for some reason or another? The 9 to 5 job is great for weekends and holidays, birthdays, graduations, etc., but wouldn't it be cool to get about a week (or two or three depending on seniority) off EVERY month, versus the deskjob-standard two weeks per year? I guess it all comes down to how much you enjoy doing your work WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. Maybe I'm woefully childish about all this (which is entirely possible), but isn't it at all rewarding to fly and make money at the same time?
Someone made the analogy of a Greyhound bus with wings. I have to say I don't agree with the analogy. Everyone can and does drive a car to work; almost anyone could get a license to drive a bus (to work). Ask yourself how many people you know who fly a plane to work. If the idea of flying is boring or unfulfilling, then yes, I would say get away from this profession fast. But personally, I consider a paying flying job to be right up there with that of a professional athlete. I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine Derek Jeter, or even the first year rookie, second-guessing his career move because of all the days he spends away from his own bed. They do it because they get to do what they love to do, AND they get paid to do it.
BTW I am all too familiar with family separation, and if that is a deal-breaker for you, then I agree this is the wrong profession until you are senior enough to control it. But having managed 6+ month separations without cell phones or email, I can say I certainly don't mind a few days or weeks away at a time.
I suppose "the grass is always greener" could be applied anywhere, it just seems a little depressing that it is already applying in this profession. Just my thoughts...
ShadowFlight
Momentary lapse of reason
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2003
- Posts
- 180
Grass isn't always greener...
Granted the airline pilot career is tough, be careful what you ask for. Working a desk job is not all that great. I did it for over 5 years. Stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic with all the people headed to their 8-5 job, having to deal with idiot management types (the airlines don't have the exclusive to politics and stupid management), co-workers undermining others, stuck in a windowless cube staring at a computer screen all day or answering the phone 100 times a day listening to customers complain/whine or dealing less than honorable co-workers. Sure, you're home with family every night but being tied to a desk, at least for me, is not the way to live life.
I'm on reserve and will continue to bid that so I will not get burned out flying and being gone all the time. Reserve allows me to work my office job part-time. When I get tired of sitting in a cube, I go fly. When I'm tired of flying, I go back to the office cube. I like both jobs and it works for me. Everyone is different and all jobs require sacrifice.
If you are unhappy with your choice, change it! People today change jobs, on average, about every 5 years. Nothing says you have to remain an airline pilot forever. We all have the power to make a change.
Life is too short to be miserable.
Peace
SF
Granted the airline pilot career is tough, be careful what you ask for. Working a desk job is not all that great. I did it for over 5 years. Stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic with all the people headed to their 8-5 job, having to deal with idiot management types (the airlines don't have the exclusive to politics and stupid management), co-workers undermining others, stuck in a windowless cube staring at a computer screen all day or answering the phone 100 times a day listening to customers complain/whine or dealing less than honorable co-workers. Sure, you're home with family every night but being tied to a desk, at least for me, is not the way to live life.
I'm on reserve and will continue to bid that so I will not get burned out flying and being gone all the time. Reserve allows me to work my office job part-time. When I get tired of sitting in a cube, I go fly. When I'm tired of flying, I go back to the office cube. I like both jobs and it works for me. Everyone is different and all jobs require sacrifice.
If you are unhappy with your choice, change it! People today change jobs, on average, about every 5 years. Nothing says you have to remain an airline pilot forever. We all have the power to make a change.
Life is too short to be miserable.
Peace
SF
JB Bus Drvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Posts
- 179
Data,
After military retirement I went to work for BizEx and after two years, life really sucked. I swore I'd never go back to the airline business. Flew helicopters for a few years, then got a job with the Feds. After 4 1/2 yrs, the politics got too much and this job with an LCC fell into my lap. Things for me have been great. Family should be number 1. I was fortunate to have been around for my kids to grow up. Both are teenagers and doing well. They understand why and what I do and are happy when I'm home. This career has it's ups and downs. With that said, try to make the best of your time home (quality is in many cases better than quantity) and do your best to tolerate your profession. You, like the rest of us, have problably put in too much time and money into a dream we once had. Do your best to hang in there and try to find some bright spots about your job. Best of Luck!
After military retirement I went to work for BizEx and after two years, life really sucked. I swore I'd never go back to the airline business. Flew helicopters for a few years, then got a job with the Feds. After 4 1/2 yrs, the politics got too much and this job with an LCC fell into my lap. Things for me have been great. Family should be number 1. I was fortunate to have been around for my kids to grow up. Both are teenagers and doing well. They understand why and what I do and are happy when I'm home. This career has it's ups and downs. With that said, try to make the best of your time home (quality is in many cases better than quantity) and do your best to tolerate your profession. You, like the rest of us, have problably put in too much time and money into a dream we once had. Do your best to hang in there and try to find some bright spots about your job. Best of Luck!
flyingitalian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2003
- Posts
- 143
OH MY GOD! I can believe all the b!itching going on in this thread! Sounds to me like you people never had a job in your life except flying. College to regional or service to airline. Get your collective heads out from where the sun does not shine and remember life is what you make it. My father had nothing to do with aviation and he was gone to work before I got up and was home maybe a few min. before I went to bed. He went out on extended trips, and occasionally had my uncle take me on a camp out that he could not make. He is a good man because when he was home he spent time and gave his full attention to me. He taught me to work hard and always go the extra mile. Most of the Dads in my neighborhood would kill for my schedule because I can actually be home for a few weekdays in a row, have lunch with my daughter at school, walk my kids to school, pick them up, go to practice and do the things they would love to do, but cant because they ARE WORKING!!!!! They are gone before the kids get up and get home when the kids are in bed five days a week. Is that being home? You got to be kidding me. Then on the weekend its a meeting on Saturday or a party saturday night that takes half the day and kissing the bosses A$$, please people wake up! The opportunity before you is infinite. The schedule is good, 8 days or more off and you are home more than the rest of the world. You know what ,forget all I said and get the he!! out, quite the boo-hooing already and leave the industry.
Mooseflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Posts
- 284
B-atch
broke, and getting worse.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Posts
- 584
Airline carreer
Airline carreer.... " Highly over-rated...Similar to eating large amounts of chocolat" This business has gone to the dogs... The price tag on a pilot has gone from "DEPARTMENT STORE to FLEA MARKET price" and it ain't gonna get better!!! If you compare the time invested in this carreer in order to reach the big $$, you are better off betting on a different field.....BY the way, has anyone seen Boeing's project after the 7e7....It's a SINGLE PILOT FLIGHT DECK.... OH OH it sounds like this profession is about to join the EXTINCT list in a few years...GOOD luck, we are all going to need it.... and thats just my 2 cents
Airline carreer.... " Highly over-rated...Similar to eating large amounts of chocolat" This business has gone to the dogs... The price tag on a pilot has gone from "DEPARTMENT STORE to FLEA MARKET price" and it ain't gonna get better!!! If you compare the time invested in this carreer in order to reach the big $$, you are better off betting on a different field.....BY the way, has anyone seen Boeing's project after the 7e7....It's a SINGLE PILOT FLIGHT DECK.... OH OH it sounds like this profession is about to join the EXTINCT list in a few years...GOOD luck, we are all going to need it.... and thats just my 2 cents
taxicabdriver
disgruntled employee
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2004
- Posts
- 243
A few posts ago, somebody stated that we should ask who's happy and who's not happy prefaced by the question of who a person flies for. I think a better question would be to ask who is married and who has a family, then ask the question of whether that person is happy or not. I think it's hard for people with significant others and/or kids to be happy in this industry due to its volatility (not to mention the working schedules). Stability in work life reduces stress which translates to reduced stress in the home life. Being in the military (former civilian), I am reminded every day that the folks going through flight training around me who are married are going through a much more difficult version of training than I am. It's tough to juggle a family and work. Of course, the flip side of that is that you have your own personal support team waiting for you at home every evening.
For the single people, nobody is keeping you in this industry. I'll take your seat when I go on reserve status if you don't want it.
I think there is something to be said for the joy of flying. To me there's nothing better than being at the controls of an eager machine, taking off into the crap, and breaking out of the soup high above rush hour traffic. There's that rush and sensation of speed as you plow through the clouds. There are the infinitely beautiful sunrises and sunsets seen from the best seat in the house. You fly over mega-cities in the east, farms in the midwest, and high mountain peaks in the west. In a way, pilots are the luckiest group of people on the planet. Maybe industry volatility, schedules, and management are just a penance we must pay for a life we love.
Just my .00000000002.
Skyward80
For the single people, nobody is keeping you in this industry. I'll take your seat when I go on reserve status if you don't want it.
I think there is something to be said for the joy of flying. To me there's nothing better than being at the controls of an eager machine, taking off into the crap, and breaking out of the soup high above rush hour traffic. There's that rush and sensation of speed as you plow through the clouds. There are the infinitely beautiful sunrises and sunsets seen from the best seat in the house. You fly over mega-cities in the east, farms in the midwest, and high mountain peaks in the west. In a way, pilots are the luckiest group of people on the planet. Maybe industry volatility, schedules, and management are just a penance we must pay for a life we love.
Just my .00000000002.
Skyward80
FlyingFarmer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Posts
- 103
FlyingItalian
FI,
I won't bother to quote what you said, and I'll try to keep my insults to a minimum, but it
would appear you're a rookie, or, even worse, as you said "8 days off" (or more) you might
perhaps be Mesa trash, with the long sideburns, and your baggie clothes, and hat pulled down
over your overly large ears, which means you're just plain stupid. You know, as a matter of fact,
as I sit here, trying to figure this out, I think I'm getting the picture on you, you probably have
"My other Car is a Cessna" on your license plate, don't you. Or if you are an airline guy, you probably
like to pick up your kids with the old uniform on, to, you know, impress the teachers, or maybe
your just one of those trolls who always wanted to fly but......blah blah blah, OTOH, you could
also be a management plant/troll, sitting in your office trying to dream up ways to skrew with people
who's lunch you're not qualified to carry across the street, which, trust me, is what we really think of
all you office dwellers, as I ponder the implications I'm struck that this is indeed the most likely scenario. Whatever the case, I don't really care, but I do think that you should do some simple
math to better educate yourself. I did, after all, say that I was going to keep the insults to a
bare minimum. So allow me to press on.
Most people work 9-5, 5 days a week, they spend 160 hours away from home a month, OK- let's
round that up to 200 for "@ss kssing" at parties and other misc. functions. So that's 200 hours away from home a month. Now, let's look at an average airline sched. for most of us. The average in the industry is between 10 and 15 days off a month so let's say...heck, let's be generous and say 13 days off. That means
we are away from home for 17 days a month. Multiply that by 24 and you have 408. Now add in reccurret, initial, transition, upgrade, junior man, reassignments, bidding and adjusting scheds, etc, and, well, fine, I'll be
generous, maybe you're senior and do mostly 1 day trips, fine, say......400 hours a month away from home.
2400 extra hours away from home a year. Weekends, nights, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years,
(get the picture?)
Go back to getting that flourescent light tan you jagoff wannabe, the real pilots on here know you're a
dumb@ss. OTOH, if you really do fly the line for a living, 99% of your peers will agree with ME, and not with
you. So what does that say about you then? Don't know? Well, I'll tell you "Italian", it means that you....
"Capisce un cazzo solo"
Go play on another board FI, or do those initials stand for Fkin' Impersonator.
-FF
FI,
I won't bother to quote what you said, and I'll try to keep my insults to a minimum, but it
would appear you're a rookie, or, even worse, as you said "8 days off" (or more) you might
perhaps be Mesa trash, with the long sideburns, and your baggie clothes, and hat pulled down
over your overly large ears, which means you're just plain stupid. You know, as a matter of fact,
as I sit here, trying to figure this out, I think I'm getting the picture on you, you probably have
"My other Car is a Cessna" on your license plate, don't you. Or if you are an airline guy, you probably
like to pick up your kids with the old uniform on, to, you know, impress the teachers, or maybe
your just one of those trolls who always wanted to fly but......blah blah blah, OTOH, you could
also be a management plant/troll, sitting in your office trying to dream up ways to skrew with people
who's lunch you're not qualified to carry across the street, which, trust me, is what we really think of
all you office dwellers, as I ponder the implications I'm struck that this is indeed the most likely scenario. Whatever the case, I don't really care, but I do think that you should do some simple
math to better educate yourself. I did, after all, say that I was going to keep the insults to a
bare minimum. So allow me to press on.
Most people work 9-5, 5 days a week, they spend 160 hours away from home a month, OK- let's
round that up to 200 for "@ss kssing" at parties and other misc. functions. So that's 200 hours away from home a month. Now, let's look at an average airline sched. for most of us. The average in the industry is between 10 and 15 days off a month so let's say...heck, let's be generous and say 13 days off. That means
we are away from home for 17 days a month. Multiply that by 24 and you have 408. Now add in reccurret, initial, transition, upgrade, junior man, reassignments, bidding and adjusting scheds, etc, and, well, fine, I'll be
generous, maybe you're senior and do mostly 1 day trips, fine, say......400 hours a month away from home.
2400 extra hours away from home a year. Weekends, nights, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years,
(get the picture?)
Go back to getting that flourescent light tan you jagoff wannabe, the real pilots on here know you're a
dumb@ss. OTOH, if you really do fly the line for a living, 99% of your peers will agree with ME, and not with
you. So what does that say about you then? Don't know? Well, I'll tell you "Italian", it means that you....
"Capisce un cazzo solo"
Go play on another board FI, or do those initials stand for Fkin' Impersonator.
-FF
FlyingFarmer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Posts
- 103
Ty Webb
Hostage to Fortune
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2001
- Posts
- 6,524
Man, you guys are killing me. I don't know who you guys are working for, but even AirTran doesn't keep me gone that much! I average 17 days off. I commute in on day 1, home on the last day. Hardly work a weekend or a holiday anymore . . . Sleep 20-21 nights in my own bed. Sure, I could make a lot more money at some other carriers, but money isn't everything . . . .JohnDoe said:
As for family time, let's see, in the past year, we have done or have planned:
1) Rocky Mountain National Park for a week
2) 4 day Colorado ski trip with my 11 year-old son
3) spent 10 days with extended family over Memorial Day
4) spending a week on a lake in North Woods with my wife's family in July
5) 20th High school reunion in my hometown in late July
5) Thanksgiving week in my hometown with extended family
6) Christmas with wife's family
7) several weekend camping trips
I think I spend more time with my family than many management/engineering types.
Last edited:
satpak77
Marriott Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2003
- Posts
- 3,015
FlyingItalian
is what I call someone who "just dont get it"
The fact of life is 90% of society, besides police, firefighters, hospital workers, etc, work 9 to 5 M-F, with major holidays off.
I would argue those of us who make $120,000 a year but have this "airline lifestyle" would leave if we could find a secure job paying 90,000 a year but meeting a "normal schedule" such as M-F.
Being "off" Tuesday to Thursday, flying all weekend, then working all Christmas's and SuperBowl Sundays for my first 3-5 years as a junior guy are not appealing to me to say the least.
I for one was never someone to introduce myself as "Hey, my name is Joe, I am an airline pilot", so my work does not define who I am. I go to work so I have money when I go home. Flying is cool, its neat, its fun, all that warm fuzzy stuff, but lets be realistic. It can suck at times.
Fortunately alot of us (me included) have outside interests and hobbies and do not wear our pilot uniform to the mall in hopes of someone validating us.
is what I call someone who "just dont get it"
The fact of life is 90% of society, besides police, firefighters, hospital workers, etc, work 9 to 5 M-F, with major holidays off.
I would argue those of us who make $120,000 a year but have this "airline lifestyle" would leave if we could find a secure job paying 90,000 a year but meeting a "normal schedule" such as M-F.
Being "off" Tuesday to Thursday, flying all weekend, then working all Christmas's and SuperBowl Sundays for my first 3-5 years as a junior guy are not appealing to me to say the least.
I for one was never someone to introduce myself as "Hey, my name is Joe, I am an airline pilot", so my work does not define who I am. I go to work so I have money when I go home. Flying is cool, its neat, its fun, all that warm fuzzy stuff, but lets be realistic. It can suck at times.
Fortunately alot of us (me included) have outside interests and hobbies and do not wear our pilot uniform to the mall in hopes of someone validating us.
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