banned username 1
Banned User
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 412
Wow- what a great thread
This is one of the better threads I've seen because it hasn't degenerated into a scat throwing contest.
No doubt, as everyone simply tries to make their career the most successful one they can, when confronted with all the variables within the airline business and human nature being what it is, the difference between hopes and expectations versus the eventual outcomes can lead to some deeply visceral feelings of disgust and disappointment. It's certainly evident here. Mine sure isn't ending up the way it was appearing to head just 5 short years ago.
Some may think I'm wrong, but when it comes to strikes and the perceptions of what companies (and their employees- in this case pilots) should do during a strike seems a little out of whack. Isn't the general idea of legally withholding your services to your employer the central way to economically motivate management to return to the bargaining table? Then, don't both sides give a little in order to return to business and start making money again? Generally speaking, it's a war of attrition- who can hold out the longest (or who's the stupidest)? For years, airlines had mutual-aid pacts to help each other out during labor disputes. Heck, no offense, but NWA probably made more money during their numerous strikes than when they were operating back in regulation days.
Speaking of regulation and now, Alfred Kahn. Once all that was thrown out and there was "no holds barred", business was free to jump all over a struck carrier. Do you believe that pilots forced their employers to fly struck routes? In fact, it was an open policy to force a stubborn carrier to return to the bargaining table to have other airlines scooping up their customers if they were content to have their airplanes sitting at the gates. I'm not saying that working carrier pilots were doing a noble thing, but niether was it dastardly either, as some posters on this board would have you believe. If (in the case of CAL) there is some heartburn about the passengers that were flown by others (and their brothers) they are forgetting that Frank in the foreground and Alfred and the powers that be in the background had other agendas than simply providing good air commerce at a fair price with fair wages for all. Lots more going on.
Now to ALPA. I wear the pin. I've be very mildly involved. I too have a star on it- whoopee! It means I struck. It was a time that I would not wish on anybody. ALPA is what the members make of it. I believe that 95% of the rank and file are willing to let the other 5% run it. The result is that human nature- the best of it and the worst too, is well represented there. It's no different than any other organization where it has its great points, and its not-so-great points. For people to complain about it means that they forget that (just like government) you get the one that you deserve. Obviously the 95% of the members that don't get involved are apathetic enough and happy enough to let ALPA do to them whatever injustices they perceive are being done. Get over it or get involved. If your ideas are sound, one man (or woman) CAN make a difference!
Jeez- this started out to be a scab story.....what happened?
As a new 727 f/o, I was on reserve in SFO. One of my first line trips was with a Captain, I'll use his name here, Fred Sells. I noticed right away that he did not sport his ALPA pin so we all know what that meant. In briefing, he turned out to be a nice gentleman and was very competent. During the first leg, he asked if I'd like to fly all of the rest of the legs for our two or three day trip? Being young and eagar and needing the "reps", I gladly accepted.
As we flew along, he didn't say too much. He spent a lot of time looking out the side window and doing the radio work. Occasionally, we would talk a bit and I learned that he had done a lot of work at the Training Center. Through his work he had gathered over the years, many friends both on the line and within the management ranks.
When the strike came down, he struck just like the other 94% of us did. Over the next 29 days, he would be called repeatedly by his "friends" in management who used every trick in the book to try to make him cross the line. I suppose, absent any local ALPA hand-holding of "weak sisters" the company psychological ploy worked and he returned to work- and was branded a scab.
An interesting thing happened then. After the back-slapping and telling him that he did the "smart and right thing", his company friends began to treat him differently. Because he didn't go out and cross the picket line immediately at 12:01 on strike day, he really wasn't "one of us" loyal company employees, as they were called. He was a second-class citizen to them- not really to be trusted, and a scab to us. He was a man with NO support system now who had just chosen a life-altering course of action. He was essentially alone.
The strike ended and Fred returned to the line. Since he was a respected peer before the strike, he was treated simply as what he chose to be- a scab. Shunned, with no interaction from the people he used to enjoy as friends and colleagues, going to work took on a whole new set of emotions and fears. At work with a normal operation, he was more alone than ever.
Fred told me that he would meet me at the airplane with the paperwork before each leg. I don't know where he went to. All I know is that he was an otherwise nice man who made a poor choice and was in a living hell for it. We ended our trip together and that was the last time I saw him.
A few weeks later, I was in DEN on a trip when the second officer came into the cockpit with a story of what he had just witnessed in the terminal. "One of our Captains just collapsed in the terminal". Of course I wanted to hear all about it and he obliged. It seems the Captain was walking along and simply collapsed. The paramedics were called and were quickly at his side. It didn't take long for the lead paramedic to call off the lifesaving operation- he said that the Captain was dead before he hit the ground from what looked like a massive cardiac episode. I asked my flying partner who the pilot was and was told he was a Captain named Fred Sells.
What a sad way to go: friendless and hopeless.
This is one of the better threads I've seen because it hasn't degenerated into a scat throwing contest.
No doubt, as everyone simply tries to make their career the most successful one they can, when confronted with all the variables within the airline business and human nature being what it is, the difference between hopes and expectations versus the eventual outcomes can lead to some deeply visceral feelings of disgust and disappointment. It's certainly evident here. Mine sure isn't ending up the way it was appearing to head just 5 short years ago.
Some may think I'm wrong, but when it comes to strikes and the perceptions of what companies (and their employees- in this case pilots) should do during a strike seems a little out of whack. Isn't the general idea of legally withholding your services to your employer the central way to economically motivate management to return to the bargaining table? Then, don't both sides give a little in order to return to business and start making money again? Generally speaking, it's a war of attrition- who can hold out the longest (or who's the stupidest)? For years, airlines had mutual-aid pacts to help each other out during labor disputes. Heck, no offense, but NWA probably made more money during their numerous strikes than when they were operating back in regulation days.
Speaking of regulation and now, Alfred Kahn. Once all that was thrown out and there was "no holds barred", business was free to jump all over a struck carrier. Do you believe that pilots forced their employers to fly struck routes? In fact, it was an open policy to force a stubborn carrier to return to the bargaining table to have other airlines scooping up their customers if they were content to have their airplanes sitting at the gates. I'm not saying that working carrier pilots were doing a noble thing, but niether was it dastardly either, as some posters on this board would have you believe. If (in the case of CAL) there is some heartburn about the passengers that were flown by others (and their brothers) they are forgetting that Frank in the foreground and Alfred and the powers that be in the background had other agendas than simply providing good air commerce at a fair price with fair wages for all. Lots more going on.
Now to ALPA. I wear the pin. I've be very mildly involved. I too have a star on it- whoopee! It means I struck. It was a time that I would not wish on anybody. ALPA is what the members make of it. I believe that 95% of the rank and file are willing to let the other 5% run it. The result is that human nature- the best of it and the worst too, is well represented there. It's no different than any other organization where it has its great points, and its not-so-great points. For people to complain about it means that they forget that (just like government) you get the one that you deserve. Obviously the 95% of the members that don't get involved are apathetic enough and happy enough to let ALPA do to them whatever injustices they perceive are being done. Get over it or get involved. If your ideas are sound, one man (or woman) CAN make a difference!
Jeez- this started out to be a scab story.....what happened?
As a new 727 f/o, I was on reserve in SFO. One of my first line trips was with a Captain, I'll use his name here, Fred Sells. I noticed right away that he did not sport his ALPA pin so we all know what that meant. In briefing, he turned out to be a nice gentleman and was very competent. During the first leg, he asked if I'd like to fly all of the rest of the legs for our two or three day trip? Being young and eagar and needing the "reps", I gladly accepted.
As we flew along, he didn't say too much. He spent a lot of time looking out the side window and doing the radio work. Occasionally, we would talk a bit and I learned that he had done a lot of work at the Training Center. Through his work he had gathered over the years, many friends both on the line and within the management ranks.
When the strike came down, he struck just like the other 94% of us did. Over the next 29 days, he would be called repeatedly by his "friends" in management who used every trick in the book to try to make him cross the line. I suppose, absent any local ALPA hand-holding of "weak sisters" the company psychological ploy worked and he returned to work- and was branded a scab.
An interesting thing happened then. After the back-slapping and telling him that he did the "smart and right thing", his company friends began to treat him differently. Because he didn't go out and cross the picket line immediately at 12:01 on strike day, he really wasn't "one of us" loyal company employees, as they were called. He was a second-class citizen to them- not really to be trusted, and a scab to us. He was a man with NO support system now who had just chosen a life-altering course of action. He was essentially alone.
The strike ended and Fred returned to the line. Since he was a respected peer before the strike, he was treated simply as what he chose to be- a scab. Shunned, with no interaction from the people he used to enjoy as friends and colleagues, going to work took on a whole new set of emotions and fears. At work with a normal operation, he was more alone than ever.
Fred told me that he would meet me at the airplane with the paperwork before each leg. I don't know where he went to. All I know is that he was an otherwise nice man who made a poor choice and was in a living hell for it. We ended our trip together and that was the last time I saw him.
A few weeks later, I was in DEN on a trip when the second officer came into the cockpit with a story of what he had just witnessed in the terminal. "One of our Captains just collapsed in the terminal". Of course I wanted to hear all about it and he obliged. It seems the Captain was walking along and simply collapsed. The paramedics were called and were quickly at his side. It didn't take long for the lead paramedic to call off the lifesaving operation- he said that the Captain was dead before he hit the ground from what looked like a massive cardiac episode. I asked my flying partner who the pilot was and was told he was a Captain named Fred Sells.
What a sad way to go: friendless and hopeless.
