Scab Stories

[geojet707]

Perhaps you need to take your Focus Factor and dig deep. CAL went on strike and returned in the late eighties (82-83 if I am correct). Easterns hub which included the Moon Light Special was not operational until 85-86. And yes I have the facts straight because I was there. We did have a crew domicle in IAH but a true hub was not until operational until then.

Frank Lorenzo was firmly in charge of both CAL and EAL during this period, which is the reason the hub was dismantled in the first place. Ask yourself where route authority to all the other South American destinations from IAH came from for CAL?

Regarding what you guys got from EAL, you have some b**ls. TAC/CAL and your boy Frank raped EAL and left a shell. From slots in EWR to a new terminal and slots in LGA and the One Pass system, your boy took and f**cked us all while you watched and crossed the line.

Don't lecture me with what you don't know.

 

[Boeingman]

Perhaps you need to take your Focus Factor and dig deep. CAL went on strike and returned in the late eighties (82-83 if I am correct).

You are not correct. We walked in 9/83 until 10/85. The we includes me incidently.

Easterns hub which included the Moon Light Special was not operational until 85-86. And yes I have the facts straight because I was there. We did have a crew domicle in IAH but a true hub was not until operational until then.

Moon light special is what makes a hub? Sonny, that was when EAL flew the A-300's on the backside of the clock to increase utilization. It had nothing to do reference EAL's hub. If I rememeber the Moonlight specials only went once daily to LGA, LAX , MIA & ATL. LOL, some hub operation.

You were there? In what capacity? Wearing diapers? Funny I don't remember Eastern flying any of the equipment you listed in your profile. Or are you to dense to even realize you just made a fool of yourself that way?

Eastern drew down the flying in IAH prior to the CAL strike. The crew base also closed around that time frame.

Frank Lorenzo was firmly in charge of both CAL and EAL during this period, which is the reason the hub was dismantled in the first place. Ask yourself where route authority to all the other South American destinations from IAH came from for CAL?

Frank had nothing to do with EAL during the period prior to their closure of the IAH domicile and hub. Further, the time period you are squawking about, none of CAL's SA destinations came from EAL or needed any of their route authority. Check six on what carrier in Miami actually took those. Here is a hint: There is a big AA on the tail

Since we are talking about Eastern's SA route authority, how many pilots did Eastern take from another brother ALPA carrier when they bought them?

Regarding what you guys got from EAL, you have some b**ls. TAC/CAL and your boy Frank raped EAL and left a shell. From slots in EWR to a new terminal and slots in LGA and the One Pass system, your boy took and f**cked us all while you watched and crossed the line.

EWR is not a slot controlled airport.

TAC/CAL...ah not one in the same. As EAL was a subsidary of TAC so was CAL. Here is an easy one, maybe you can get it right. What does TAC stand for?

One pass system? Ah sonny, what you are trying to call the Eastern computer reservations system was called "System One" Frank sold it to EDS after raping CAL with user fees. One pass is the frequent flier program in place now at CAL.


The terminal in LGA was immediatley leased to USAir and they bought the slots. CAL did not benefit one bit from either of those transactions. In fact, I believe Eastern tanked long before the new terminal was even finished.

Crossed the line? LOL, think what you wish. Reread my last two posts bozo. My guess is I have been a MIGS since before you were even born.

Don't lecture me with what you don't know.

No, I am lecturing you with what you don't know. It appears to be quite a bit.

 

[geojet707]

You are not correct. We walked in 9/83 until 10/85. The we includes me incidently.



Moon light special is what makes a hub? Sonny, that was when EAL flew the A-300's on the backside of the clock to increase utilization. It had nothing to do reference EAL's hub. If I rememeber the Moonlight specials only went once daily to LGA, LAX , MIA & ATL. LOL, some hub operation.

You were there? In what capacity? Wearing diapers? Funny I don't remember Eastern flying any of the equipment you listed in your profile. Or are you to dense to even realize you just made a fool of yourself that way?

Eastern drew down the flying in IAH prior to the CAL strike. The crew base also closed around that time frame.



Frank had nothing to do with EAL during the period prior to their closure of the IAH domicile and hub. Further, the time period you are squawking about, none of CAL's SA destinations came from EAL or needed any of their route authority. Check six on what carrier in Miami actually took those. Here is a hint: There is a big AA on the tail

Since we are talking about Eastern's SA route authority, how many pilots did Eastern take from another brother ALPA carrier when they bought them?



EWR is not a slot controlled airport.

TAC/CAL...ah not one in the same. As EAL was a subsidary of TAC so was CAL. Here is an easy one, maybe you can get it right. What does TAC stand for?

One pass system? Ah sonny, what you are trying to call the Eastern computer reservations system was called "System One" Frank sold it to EDS after raping CAL with user fees. One pass is the frequent flier program in place now at CAL.


The terminal in LGA was immediatley leased to USAir and they bought the slots. CAL did not benefit one bit from either of those transactions. In fact, I believe Eastern tanked long before the new terminal was even finished.

Crossed the line? LOL, think what you wish. Reread my last two posts bozo. My guess is I have been a MIGS since before you were even born.



No, I am lecturing you with what you don't know. It appears to be quite a bit.

Sorry dad, I guess a "fool" like me with a sub standard profile may not have much to offer. God forbid you actually listen to any other version of what is one of the worst times in our industry. Think I am being a little dramatic? Ask the thousands of employes out of work because of the likes of Lorenzo and Ichan. That includes my father by the way. Oh wait, I am sorry General, I forgot you were shooting MIGS and I was in diapers...whatever.

So did you go back in 89 or sooner? Wait, maybe you layed low at CAL until ALPA washed away your sins. Maybe you and your boy Frank get together at his home for drinks on the weekends, talk about old times and how EAL was such a terrible deal. Yeah, I guess you both even sip out of the same cup. Give me a break dad, Frank never did anything that didn't make him $$$.

Also, EAL went from 27 flights per day to close to 90 from 85-86. This was due to the moonlight deal as well as SA and domestic destinations that originated in IAH. CAL went on strike in 83 and was in the air not long after that. When EAL became part of TAC (Texas Air Corp) it was down sized in IAH then moved to HOU. I imagine that fact has been erased from your hard drive. And yes you are right Admiral, AA did take the SA flights in MIA as well as most of everything EAL had in MIA.

Time to say good night General. Kiss Frank for me.

 

[geojet707]

1989-1991?????

 

[Boeingman]

Sorry dad, I guess a "fool" like me with a sub standard profile may not have much to offer.

You really are a dense one aren't you? The only reason I mentioned your profile was the fact that you claimed to be at Eastern during the meltdown. Some (most) of the aircraft in your profile wern't even an artists conception at that time. See the problem with your credibility?

God forbid you actually listen to any other version of what is one of the worst times in our industry. Think I am being a little dramatic? Ask the thousands of employes out of work because of the likes of Lorenzo and Ichan.

I don't have to ask anybody. I was also a victim. I don't think you're dramatic in the least. I am not sure of the proper word that describes talking out of your aft blow hole on a continual basis.

That includes my father by the way.

Then we have something in common. Speaking of dear old Dad, was he one of the boys picking up extra flying during our labor dispute?

Oh wait, I am sorry General, I forgot you were shooting MIGS and I was in diapers...whatever.

Shooting MIGS? Ahh no, the reference to a MIGS was Member In Good Standing
i.e. ALPA member. Perhaps you should call Dad for guidance on these terms before you respond to any more of these posts and not make a bigger fool out of yourself than you already have.

So did you go back in 89 or sooner?

The CAL strike ended in 85. I went back in 87. WTF does the date of the EAL strike have anything to do with this or my employment?

Wait, maybe you layed low at CAL until ALPA washed away your sins.

You lost me on this one sonny. A) I never had to lay low at CAL. B) I have no sins to wash. C) ALPA can't even wash it's own ass these days.

Maybe you and your boy Frank get together at his home for drinks on the weekends, talk about old times and how EAL was such a terrible deal. Yeah, I guess you both even sip out of the same cup.

Careful, you're going to blow a blood vessel here. But do keep going this is truly amazing. But you are right about one thing. Eastern was a terrible deal for CAL. It allowed Frank to use more assets with TAC and rape CAL with leases.

Give me a break dad, Frank never did anything that didn't make him $$$.

What is your point? Better WTF did you want me to do about it?

Also, EAL went from 27 flights per day to close to 90 from 85-86. This was due to the moonlight deal as well as SA and domestic destinations that originated in IAH.

I call BS on that.

CAL went on strike in 83 and was in the air not long after that. When EAL became part of TAC (Texas Air Corp) it was down sized in IAH then moved to HOU. I imagine that fact has been erased from your hard drive.

Not long after the strike? You have a serious time comprehension problem. Were you in a coma for part of the 80's? It would explain some large gaps in your memory. Eastern was practicaly non existent in IAH when TAC bought them.

And yes you are right Admiral, AA did take the SA flights in MIA as well as most of everything EAL had in MIA.

General, Admiral...I appreciate the promotion for my Military pension since I did only make it to Major. I thank you.

Time to say good night General. Kiss Frank for me.

What? And no comment from you about "One Pass" (I am still laughing at that one) or those EWR "slots"? Or how CAL got the LGA terminal? When you sober up in the morning, let me know about these other fascinating things you have mentioned.

 

[geojet707]

I know you are but what am I!!!!!!! Go to bed Major.

 

[Dangerkitty]

I know you are but what am I!!!!!!! Go to bed Major.

Wow, what a comeback.

 

[Freight Dog]

I remember jumpseating on UAL several years ago on a 767. I didn't know much about unions or scabs at the time as I was a brand new regional FO.

It was a packed flight, and I had to ride up front. The captain was a very friendly guy, chatty, and the FO seemed nice, but I didn't notice any sort of a social interaction between the two. I didn't want to create any issues, so when the captain went to the bathroom, I asked the FO - bored flying with him? You guys don't talk much.

His response was: Note he doesn't have an ALPA pin on his tie which at UAL means he's a scab. We don't engage in social interaction with scabs. Remain professional, do our job, and leave it at that.

 

[EAP]

In 1993 I worked at UAL in one of the base flight offices as a non-flying manager support staff. The '85 strike was still somewhat of an open wound and you'd get every side of the story depending on who you spoke with, but it was pretty much accepted that the Scabs were to be avoided by most all line pilots. Most every other worker, like the FA's, mechanics, etc. also avoided the Scab pilots too. The flight operations management structure, aggressively filled with Scabs right after the '85 strike, was starting to be back-filled with staunch ALPA pilots and they were making a point to let everyone know that the 99 percent of non scab pilots were in charge of the place again - after a lot of anti union sentiment following the failed union busting attempt. I never saw any open hostility occuring or name calling, but when you went into the blue room, especially in "TK", or the training center, the writing on the toilet stalls about "scabs this and scabs that" was a little childish to be honest. At any of the domicile mail boards, anyone having crossed the line was always tagged with a neatly hand written "scab" next to his name on equipment lists or vacation lists, etc. Having grown up in an airline family and having been on food stamps as a child when my father was on strike did give me an admittadly strong union bias - but I found it slightly difficult, from my perspective, to understand the emotions and mechanics behind such things so long after the event.

On the other hand, the Chief Pilot at my flight office was a Scab. All of his flight managers were true blue union guys however; the last scab flight manager having retired right before I came on. I always saw really good interaction with the CP and the Managers. Even in the CP's absence, they never really spoke badly about him for being a Scab, as he was a relatively good man that was good at his job and I recall him as a pilot advocate when it came down to it.

I had the opportunity to jumpseat several times as an OMC (observing member of the crew) in my capacity and sooner than later the subject of union and scab education came up by every single crew. They were very polite to me, and let me know that the boss of the office was a scab, but that I would always have my own choice to make, and to never, ever cross a picket line. Also, sometimes, the guys would tell me to never misuse the "SCAB" name, and leave it to be used on the actual offenders (people that cross a picket line to take jobs from the striking crews at the specific company).

Later that year I had a chance to go back to full time flying at an ALPA reginal carrier. We were flying for a staunch ALPA mainline carrier, so of course, the company was filled with commuter pilots that longed to fly for the mainline and were wanna be picket line walkers. We didn't have a clue what that meant however.

I was headed for ALPA stardom a couple years later. I was an elected officer, wore silver ALPA wings, and went to all the big parties in Florida with the fat cats of the union and was on all the committees. Like a good pilot, I had an extra pair of wings on my badge so that all pilots would know I was good enough for a jumpseat (I was a commuter). I then, by chance, had an opprtunity to share a cockpit with an interesting guy.

I was jumpseating on a supplemental outfit and the captain invited me into the cockpit and asked if I'd sit up with them on the flight. I said sure, as I didn't mind and I was just happy for the ride. He then let me know about a story - it started out like all the other, "Son, never cross a line, and this is this, and that is that..." and then he did me a big favor. He told me the truth. He let me know that he had made a mistake, and that he was regretting it for the rest of his life. He was a scab. It had a lot to do with trust, lies, fear, and not knowing what to do in the heat of battle. He never made an excuse. He never asked for anyone's forgiveness. He just admitted it was a horrible thing to lose your best friends and be an outcast in an industry he loved.

That's the thing with all this Scab stuff. You can play with the sword, but you may die by it too. Sometimes the battlelines aren't clear. Sometimes they are. The United case is an old fashioned one - it seemed pretty clear to me and it's probably why you hear so many clear and cut scab stories there. But many times, from a first person perspective things are not as easy. I'm not trying to defend any scab, but I hope, honestly, to never have to wear a battlestar on my ALPA pin or ever have the cause to look another human being in the eye and say "Scab". It's just not a glamorous thing. There is no glory in that kind of thing. If I do ever get a battlestar on my pin, I will do what I have to do but I will not look to it as a good time.

I eventually made it to the majors but I never really liked the scab stories like I did when I was a commuter guy before flying with that supplemental airline captain.

As far as unions go, they are a really good thing when it comes to flight safety (as a whole). Scab stories are a bad biproduct however, sorta like blood sausage. That crap doesn't make it to my dinner table, it goes in the trash.

 

[banned username 1]

It's pretty easy to know where you worked. Yes, although I don't know why the guy scabbed, he always ran the domicile well. It's a testament to his longevity in the position on how he interacted with everyone.


Great post from you.

UAL78

 

[DO328FLYER]

Ive never knowingly flown with a, scab!! When I was an FO at Comair though, a guy came up to the cockpit looking for a jumpseat..This was about a month before we went on strike.. He introduced himself to the Captain and myself.. THe Captain looked at the guys ID, checked his scab list and then presto the guy was on it.. The Captain said " Get off my plane you greedy scab bastard".. The scab then got all emotional and threatened to tell his company (Continental)!! It's sad that a scab like that could hold a high seniority number in one of the better Major airlines out there!

Any Captain that carries a "scab list" around with him is a pathetic ALPA Kool Aid drinker. All ALPA has done for me is charge me a hell of a lot of money for a really crappy magazine subscription. Hell, I was at a big airshow and ALPA had a booth. They had a book you could sign when you stopped by. They did not even have my airline listed! We are small, but we pay dues too. ALPA is all about dues and kissing the buts of MAJOR airline pilots that pay the most dues. I have watched the union defend COMPLETE and total morons that clearly deserve to be fired. But the union will stand behind guys that should really be working at Home Depot. And here is another news flash. Just because 70% of a pilot group thinks a strike is a good idea does not make the other 30% wrong. There has been more than one strike that was clearly a bad idea looking back. I would never knock a guy that has the balls to disagree with his union instead of marching in step. Some of you guys act like your in grade school and are more likely to be swayed by peer pressure than by what you belive in your heart. Unions do serve a purpose but there are some of you that need to grow a spine and start thinking for yourselves!

 

[EAP]

...ALPA is all about dues and kissing the buts of MAJOR airline pilots that pay the most dues. I have watched the union defend COMPLETE and total morons that clearly deserve to be fired. But the union will stand behind guys that should really be working at Home Depot...

Most ALPA fat cats will be the first to admit that they aren't going to change an airline or turn it into something that it isn't already. As harsh as it may sound, it seems your airline might have a recruiting and screening problem if people are getting behind the controls of your airplanes that should rather be working at HomeDepot. ALPA can't change that. If a moron is being defended, then look to the precident that the defence may be involved in or the fact that possibly the moron is not being charged with a fair offense as strange as it may seem on the surface. Or, yeah, it could be a bad case of defense, where the individuals behind the scenes may need to wake up and smell the coffee.

The thing that most forget, or never knew, is that ALPA is not a stand alone entity worthy of worship or hatred. It is simply a reflection of the industry. It is made up of the very pilots that fly our airplanes... it is run by pilots, and has the fingerprints of normal everyday pilots all over it. That is all it is. Any hatred toward it is simply an identification of characteristics that we do not like of our own profession (well, our own airline and niche place in the industry really). It is not a whailing wall nor will it answer prayers.

 

[Tram]

Are you living through events through a relative like Tram?

I enjoy reading your rants.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Once, a couple of years after our strike, I was jumpseating to go to work. There was someone on the scab list (we all carried them at that time) who had the same last name as mine. As I showed the captain my ID and introduced myself to him, he looked over at the first officer and said my last name to him with a huh? after it. For purposes of clarity, we'll use the name Smith here. So he said, "Smith, huh?" to which I shot back- "oh no, I'm not that fxxxxxxx scab, that's somebody else, I'd like to meet that bxxxxxxxxx someday and tell him he's a disgrace to the Smith name". At that point, a big grin came over both of their faces and the captain slowly turned around with perfect timing and pointed his finger at the second officer who was sitting there with a somewhat sheepish and ashamed look on his face. The captain said "I believe you just did!" It was priceless. That second officer never said a word. It was GREAT!
UAL78

Bashing folks anonymously on the internet is one thing, but was that really that enjoyable? Believe it or not scabs are human beings too.

You see, I never want to meet any of you in real life, because then I would have to be polite and civil. If there is someone at work I can't stand, I politely keep my distance from him/her. Open hostility can only make the workplace less safe for all involved.

Again, to clarify: Internet BBS hostility is the most wonderful thing in the world. But in-person hostility is another thing altogether.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Boeingman, did you ever consider working as a prosecuting attorney? I think that you missed your calling.

 

[Hamburger]

I was jumpseating years ago and the list came out. I chuckled a bit and explained that I wasn't even old enough to have been a scab. Captian replied: "You might not be old enough, but your daddy is." (He's not on the list either)

I'm surprised noone's mentioned good old ***** of Trans States fame. There was a scab that worked doing something down the hall. Every time said scab walked by the always opened classroom door: "That, ladies and gentlemen, is what a SCAB looks like!" Loud enough for the whole floor to hear.

Folks seem to be forgetting what the topic is. We are talking about Scabs, not about ALPA. Love or hate ALPA, Scabbing goes so far beyond this particular union. I believe Jack London put it best.

 

[Guitar rocker]

What's your best "I had to fly with a scab" story? We have a few at my employer. They have a thousand excuses for their actions (none are good).

I'm not a big fan of scabs either.

But somekid, whats your great story you have to add to this lousy thread? You just mention it and then run away without a single story of your own.......do you even have one??? I'll bet someone just told you all about this issue of scabs and you thought that you would sound cool and post this thread. You probably werent even around when any of the crossing of picket lines happened. Probably just a gleam in your dads eye at the time.

 

[bubbers44]

Scabs all made their choices. Don't feel like there is any reason to quit hating them. I can't find any online scab lists anymore. Some attorney probably threatened lawsuits to anyone that identified these scumbags. Sometimes I run into someone that fits the mentality to make that list but can't find one. I think my wife threw away all my old flight bag stuff with the scab list in it. My buddy is still flying so I can get a copy from him. You can still hate them after you retire.

 

[dukeaviator]

They may be employed, but man, how fun would it be to go to work and be known as a worthless sack of trash?

I know several guys who are Eastern scabs - they don't have alot of friends in the "industry." They may be the hometown local hero to people who don't know the difference between a scab and not, but everyone you work with still knows..

I won't ever go out of my way to help a scab..

I think it's funny.. they all have "real" good excuses..

The local eastern scab, "had a family, he was trying to put his kids through private school, had a car payment" yadda yadda yadda..

My dad - had a family, was tryinig to put his kids through private school, etc.. My dad didn't cross the line..

I was a young kid when Eastern happened, but I have learned alot from the people who were involved..

Scabs are worthless....

Both my parents worked for Eastern and when it was time to strike, the whole family, including me and my brother at age 15 and 16, was on the 36th street walking the line. What I've learn from this strike; its always a noble thing to fight for a cause if you have the financial means, but in the end, you must fight for your family's survival. You and everyone one on this board don't know the persons situation that made him/her cross the line, but I can tell you from my own situation, its was better to fight for your family survival rather than being homeless and hungry. In fact, we lost our house! Yes, one of my parents went back to work fighing for our familys survival. In the end, Eastern is only a memory; some good, some bad. The friends we made are still our friends today and completely understand our dilema.

In an economic crisis, one has limited choices. When you have a family to care of, your choice are even more liimited. The next time you come across a person you want to call a scab, ask him was his reasons for crossing the line. Most will probably tell you for the survival of his/her family. BEING HOMELESS AND HUNGRY IS NOT AN EASY LIFE!

 

[Dizel8]

I used to care, but once ALPA let the CAL scabs back in, I really don't anymore.