Scab Stories

[Hugh Jorgan]

Anyway, you guys that listen to all that union bullcrap about "brothers" should really take a look at what's important to you, CO-WORKERs or your real FAMILY. Flame away...............

Without any solidarity within the Union of a worker bound by a collective bargaining aggreement, how do you propose one provides shelter, food and medical care to those who are really important to them? It won't matter, because they'll never see 'em anyway....too busy working unreasonable hours to even get home to see the kids before they go to bed.

I don't know what you do for a living, but if it is not the kind of job that requires a collective bargaining agreement, then you are in no position to comment with any sort of credibility.

 

[bell47]

hey Hugh J. I guess I just don't understand it. If you don't like your job then QUIT. If things at the company are so bad, and everyone who worked there started quiting and finding other jobs, and they could not find replacements for them because of these bad practices then sooner or later they would go away.(either the bad practices or the company). If companies learn that people won't work for a place that treats them like crap, then they won't be able to treat employees this way. I don't need any collective barganing where I work because it's a small company. If I don't like something I(me, not some union rep. who has to speak for me) go to the boss( either the director of maintenance, chief pilot, or general manager) and look them in the eyes and tell them "that's bull$h!t". We discuss the issues and come up with a plan that is good for everyone. Also if I screw up or don't do my job then I'm accountable for that. I don't need some union guy to speak for me. I'll explain my own actions. Besides if someone screws up then maybe they don't need to have that particular job. Maybe they should be fired. That should be the companies right and some union should not get in the way to keep employees on who are lazy and f-up at work. Oh, and if you don't see your wife and kids enough, then you do need to find another job, or get scheduled differently. I mean really what's worth more, flying that shiny jet with your "brothers" or your kids? There was some guy earlier saying that his family was on food stamps because they were on strike. Holy crap, get real! Are these coworkers REALLY more important than your family. I suppose I have a different view of things because I would just quit and find another job before my family suffered. And another thing why would you let that happen to your family if you didn't agree with the strike to begin with? Screw that! People need to stand up for themselves and be accountable for their own actions. What is wrong with that? bell47

 

[siucavflight]

I know a scab who throws union members out of his jumpseat, and they all whine like little girls.

 

[imacdog]

People need to stand up for themselves and be accountable for their own actions.

Yet you don't think this advise applies to scabs?

 

[maru657]

I think the problem and shortfall of ALPA was and is they consider themselves an association instead of a union. As if in the blue collar vs: white collar argument there just too good to be a common union. Perhaps a national seniority list from way back would have helped. That and firm instructions that crossing a picket line, any picket line would not have been tolerated. I was called repeatedly during the Eastern strike to be an instructor and never replied or accepted any position but it wasn't because the Eastern pilots didn't have blood on their hands. Since then I have flown with scabs and have no problem with them. It was not only the crossing of the engineers picket line but crossing Patco's line that bothered me. Too many upstanding ALPA pilots did both. I always thought that made you a scab and how can you scab a scab.

 

[Don Carty]

Unions scare me. I wish they would go away.

When I was King of American Airlines, we created some special sequences. They went something like this:

- Sign in LAX at midnight
- LAX-DFW; land as Mr. Sun is popping up, then
- DFW-DEN
- DEN-DFW

These extra legs would save the company over $3 per sequence flown. The babies said that they were tired, and couldn't do the DEN turn! Waaaah. I wanted to fire them, but I was shocked when my flunkies said I couldn't.

 

[big_al]

the worst part about this union vs management nonsense, is the union fatcats are just as bad as the executives. infact they are almost always buddies who go to the same golf clubs, thousand dollar a plate dinners, social events, etc. they keep the minions fighting the minions and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[bell47]

Yet you don't think this advise applies to scabs?

IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE. I just don't see how you can be the almighty judge of everyone who doesn't agree as strongly as you do about a strike or even union membership. That's exactly why I would tell you to get screwed by a blue baboon if you didn't like what I did to take care of my family. In other words, I would be taking responsibility of things that ARE important, and not worrying what a bunch of pro-union blowhards had to say. Besides, doesn't it seem really childish to call people names(like scabs), use peer pressure to influence them, and torment them because they don't do things like you do? What do you teach your children about name calling, peerpressure and ganging up and bullying other kids? Do you teach them to think for themselves or just follow the majority of the other kids? What do you teach them about taking care of family first? Like I said before keep the "flames" coming because I would really like to understand this union rationality and loyalty to co-workers before your own family.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

hey Hugh J. I guess I just don't understand it.

You guessed right. You don't understand it.

If you don't like your job then QUIT.

I love my job. You haven't heard me complain about it. I can't imagine what my job would be like if it weren't for the collective bargaining agreement under which my company and I operate.

If things at the company are so bad, and everyone who worked there started quiting and finding other jobs, and they could not find replacements for them because of these bad practices then sooner or later they would go away.

Sure, that's an option. Another option would be for the 4, 5 or 6 thousand workers in that group to organize a representative entity and sit down with the company and negotiate terms of employment agreeable to both.

I don't need any collective barganing where I work because it's a small company. If I don't like something I(me, not some union rep. who has to speak for me) go to the boss( either the director of maintenance, chief pilot, or general manager) and look them in the eyes and tell them "that's bull$h!t".

That's great for you. I'm not sitting here telling you to do otherwise. What do you propose a group of workers 6-thousand plus do when things are "bull$hit"?

We discuss the issues and come up with a plan that is good for everyone.

Again, that's great for your small company. What about the group of 6500 pilots?

Also if I screw up or don't do my job then I'm accountable for that. I don't need some union guy to speak for me. I'll explain my own actions.

That's great for your small company, but some people in some large companies are treated unfairly and it's just not realistic for a pilot group of 4000 to have every swinging organ who is accused of screwing up heading to the chief pilot's office to defend themselves.

Besides if someone screws up then maybe they don't need to have that particular job. Maybe they should be fired.

That's right. The union's job is not to prevent terminations, but to prevent wrongful termination and ensure equal treatment. It works both ways, by the way. The Union also polices itself with a Professional Standards committee designed to nip problem children in the bud before they even show up on managements' radar scope. Some people need to be talked to and often times it's the Union folk who fix things before they become problems. Not always, but it's helpful and certainly not perfect.

Oh, and if you don't see your wife and kids enough, then you do need to find another job, or get scheduled differently. I mean really what's worth more, flying that shiny jet with your "brothers" or your kids?

Again, how do you propose a group of 5000 pilots achive such an end? Your way won't work. It has, however worked for many organized groups who exercise a little solidarity come negotiation time.

People need to stand up for themselves and be accountable for their own actions. What is wrong with that?

Exactly, what is wrong with a group of workers standing up for themselves? Sheesh.

Look, this thread isn't about union vs. non-union places. Big groups of workers need to organize and have representation. That's just the way it is. But the point of this thread is the scab's role in all of this. The only real power the Union has is solidarity. If the group has no unity, it has no power. Those who cross lines undermine what the representative group is trying to accomplish as a whole for the good of the majority of the group are the scourge of the process. The folks who don't get it and are on the fence will fall to the wrong side when you treat scabs with indifference. If you treat them like the scum they are, then perhaps some who might otherwise fall into the cesspool of line-crossers, might think better of it. For sure, ALPA has failed us by letting scabs back in. But they will always be on the list. They will always be scabs. Even when they are dead. NEVER FORGET.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Like I said before keep the "flames" coming because I would really like to understand this union rationality and loyalty to co-workers before your own family.

Be honest. You don't want to understand anything.

I have NEVER heard of anyone putting their loyalty to their coworkers above their family, although I've seen that twisted around to say that crossing a line is evident of them being more loyal to their family than their coworker. Twisted logic at best. It's hard for me to imagine a person failing their family in a bigger way than scabbing in their name when 90% of the other people in their group stand the ground and fight the good fight for....THEIR FAMILIES.

When the group acts with solidarity, all of the families benefit. And what do you think of the single scab?