S Turns in a 737

[TurboS7]

At EAL TGU was the one line that I could hold with no problem. I used to do TGU month after month 15 times each month. That was before they cut down the mountain. Fun and games, I enjoyed it though.

I helped check out AA on the run, Matt Orion was the management pilot's name.

 

[enigma]

Question What are the Two white tanks that you use now then for 31 Express Visual at LGA? and I know ATC has asked me to blow through final for sapcing there before

The tanks are not the Maspeth tanks, the Maspeth tanks were demolished. But, the blinking controllers seem to have lost the memo. The tanks in question are smaller and slightly west of DIALS. They are depicted on the Expressway visual chart as nothing more than a topographical object. Still the controllers insist upon clearing you direct to the tanks, even at night when you can't see the darn things. I just Dial in DIALS into the FMS and punch direct.

enigma

 

[leterrip]

The tanks that are depicted on the chart are the Maspeth tanks or are they those little white ones I used last time?

 

[NoahWerka]

S-turns can be a normal maneuver for any airplane. With 17,000 hours in every thing from a C-150 to a 737 to a J31 to a BE58 I have found that IF done smoothly nobody in the back of the A/C will know what is happening. "Been there, done that" as the old cliche goes. A good pilot knows the limitations of his aircraft and is not afraid to fly it to those limitations. He also has to know his own personal limitations and not be afraid to fly them to the limit. If one is flying an aircraft and CANNOT fly it from the low end of the airspeed indicator to the top end in all configurations appropriate to the speeds, then sooner or later he WILL hurt himself and somebody else. It is called Airmanship.
As for people getting flamed on this board, some of the questions asked by people who have been through pilot training, from PVT- ATP, totally amaze me. Anybody who has been through any kind of pilot training should not have to ask these questions. They should KNOW where to find the answer for themselves. If they can't, they are asking for a violation, or worse. Granted the only stupid question is the one not asked, but what hapened to COMMON SENSE?

 

[minitour]

...what hapened to COMMON SENSE?

They don't teach that one...

-mini

 

[OrphicSeth]

The approach was what it was (we've all been there); but the crosswind touchdown and rollout was very poorly executed. My guess is the pilot's never flown a taildrager... thousands of hours and missed the basics!

It's really incredible the amount of pilots--amateur and professional-- out there who don't use their feet!

Expressway visual, lots of fun!

 

[enigma]

It's really incredible the amount of pilots--amateur and professional-- out there who don't use their feet!

Expressway visual, lots of fun!

And after AA587, the big Bus that lost it's horizontal stab, there are even fewer big iron pilots who use their feet. Unfortunate, but true.

I still have a hard time believing that the FO used full rudder and full reversal three to five times that day, but the outcome is that we now know transport catagory rudders/vertical stabs are not as strong as we thought. In consideration, I've most certainly modified my ideas on rudder usage. However, I do still use rudder to make crosswind landings.

One more thing, the video was of a "hoover". CFM engined 737's don't have a lot of room between the lower cowling and the ground. You can't just set up a nice forward slip. After watching the video again, I think he did a fine job. Everbody's breathing, not bleeding, what more do you want?

enigma

 

[xjcaptain]

Everbody's breathing, not bleeding, what more do you want?

enigma

ummm.........at least the level of technique that a new PVT pilot should be able to attain in crosswind landigs? As said before, maybe some tailwheel time might be a good investment. Safe, but not exactly easy on the equipment or passengers with that amount of crab/sideload at touchdown.

 

[Immelman]

To all of us spam can pilots it looks like he botched the x-wind landing. I can understand how people say that. However, we spam can guys don't know how a 737 works. I was told that certain ones have castering main gear, a design trade-off given the engine nacelle ground proximity? If so it seems like the pilot did a fine job...

 

[enigma]

ummm.........at least the level of technique that a new PVT pilot should be able to attain in crosswind landigs? As said before, maybe some tailwheel time might be a good investment. Safe, but not exactly easy on the equipment or passengers with that amount of crab/sideload at touchdown.

Sorry that my attempt at humor was lost on you. If your profile is correct, you should recognize that crosswind landings in a wing mounted engine transport catagory jet are somewhat different than crosswind landings in most aircraft a new PVT pilot might fly. BTW, I'll assume that you've landed at LGA, and should know that a nice touchdown is only one of numerous considerations a professional pilot needs consider when arriving there.

enigma

 

[CatYaaak]

He definitely hammered it on, sideways. I wonder what his sink rate at touchdown was? Oh well, if we haven't done it at one time or another, we will.


But Angus, lighten up. That whole "You weren't in the cockpit or have experience therefore how dare you question the crew in any regard" thing is just so....so...British or something. Half the posts on Brit-dominated PPRUNE run along those lines to excuse (by those who, lacking any sense of irony, also weren't in the cockpit) pretty much every minor or major f**k-up you can think of, no matter how obvious or blatant.

I mean really, pax are well aware that when they land the cabin isn't supposed to look like a room full of 120 woodpeckers pecking in unison when their heads are snapped.

 

[OrphicSeth]

I'll assume that you've landed at LGA, and should know that a nice touchdown is only one of numerous considerations a professional pilot needs consider when arriving there.

Hahaha! Very true.

 

[xjcaptain]

Sorry that my attempt at humor was lost on you. If your profile is correct, you should recognize that crosswind landings in a wing mounted engine transport catagory jet are somewhat different than crosswind landings in most aircraft a new PVT pilot might fly. BTW, I'll assume that you've landed at LGA, and should know that a nice touchdown is only one of numerous considerations a professional pilot needs consider when arriving there.

enigma

If it was said in humor I apologize, however if you are defending that landing, I don't see the humor. I stick by my statement, many need to learn to use their feet. That was quite the crab angle at touchdown, and it appears that it was a result of some poor technique even considering the aircraft type and limitations. Just because a particular approach is challenging and may have some special considerations, it doesn't change the need for some basic airmanship. Anybody can do a great job under perfect conditions (we'll almost anybody) it's when things get challenging when we need to perform our best.

 

[enigma]

If it was said in humor I apologize, however if you are defending that landing, I don't see the humor. I stick by my statement, many need to learn to use their feet. That was quite the crab angle at touchdown, and it appears that it was a result of some poor technique even considering the aircraft type and limitations. Just because a particular approach is challenging and may have some special considerations, it doesn't change the need for some basic airmanship. Anybody can do a great job under perfect conditions (we'll almost anybody) it's when things get challenging when we need to perform our best.

That was an attempt at humor, and.............

Actually, I will defend the landing. As I will defend your poor landing. Unless, of course, you've never made a bad one. For me, I've managed some pretty crappy landings in my time.

You know, criticizing this approach and and landing is sort of like criticizing Barry Bonds because he only hits a home-run every 7 at bats. He could do better if he only knew how to hold his wrists, etc. yadayadayada.

"Yee who is without sin, cast the first stone"

maybe, I'll make that my signature
enigma

 

[xjcaptain]

I don't recall saying I've never made a bad landing, far from it. But I don't say it's ok that it was a crappy landing because of.........(pick your excuse). If I blow it, I say well that sucked, I better do it better next time. You know what they say about excuses.....They are just like a..holes, everybody has one.