S Turns in a 737

[blott]

I did a side slip the other day.... been a while since I did a forward slip....or is it the other way around?

B

My best landing yet.
First flight in a ERJ145. Had 9month vacation prior 'cause of 9/11. First time into LGA too. Previous to 9/11 I flew a SAAB. Sight picture landing was a little off. I was just getting ready to flair when we hit. CFIT. IOE Capt. must carry his balls around in a wagon 'cause he didn't even flinch before we hit. (did it again a few weeks ago...need to quit pullin the J8 breaker)

 

[cfikate]

for my other job, I'm a flight attendant, and I've been on several jets doing S-turns. I haven't had a passenger complain yet, amazingly enough. When we have the wrong movie, or are out of bloody mary mix, they complain. A few S turns on final, and nobody says anything.

 

[bobbysamd]

737 landing

For the benefit of the original poster, who has but 55 hours, you really don't use the wing-low method of crosswind touchdowns that you might use in your 172 in a 737. I asked that of a 737 pilot many years ago when I was a curious new pilot. The reason is obvious when you think about it; you might hit an engine.

Wait until you get a good crosswind day and have your instructor demonstrate the kickout method of crosswind landings.

The 737's touchdown might not have been the greatest, but, after all, isn't any landing that you can walk away from a good landing??

Having said that, recently we had an AA DC-9 or something land short and take out approach lights at DEN. I don't remember all the particulars, but there was an ATC sequencing issue, which caused an unstabilized approach to be set up. I believe a go-around was offered to the DC-9 and it was refused. My reaction would have been to go around - but that would have been me.

 

[Swede]

For the benefit of the original poster, who has but 55 hours, you really don't use the wing-low method of crosswind touchdowns that you might use in your 172 in a 737. I asked that of a 737 pilot many years ago when I was a curious new pilot. The reason is obvious when you think about it; you might hit an engine.

Wait until you get a good crosswind day and have your instructor demonstrate the kickout method of crosswind landings.

Actually, if you look at the gear position and with the aircraft at a normal AOA for touchdown, the gear will shield the engine nicely from contact. There's no problem landing wing-low. I think (referring to the original video) the landing sucked, but I've sucked at times, everyone has. To either overly criticize, or overly defend, I think both are incorrect.

Personally, I think a go-around was in order. Sometimes pride gets in the way of that decision, and it should never do so.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

"I used to do TGU month after month 15 times each month. That was before they cut down the mountain."

That was even more fun

My compliments.

 

[enigma]

Actually, if you look at the gear position and with the aircraft at a normal AOA for touchdown, the gear will shield the engine nicely from contact. There's no problem landing wing-low.

Swede, I'm going to have to differ just a bit here. Why do you think that the 737-300 (and up) CFM engines nacelles are flat on the bottom? I don't remember the exact amount of bank that is acceptable in the 73, but I can tell you that it isn't as much as you'd imagine. On the MD80, you can't bank more than 8 degrees without dragging a wingtip, and I'll bet that the 737 is less margin than that.

As a general statement, I do agree that the landing wasn't good, but that video shows one landing. For all we know, it could have been an initial OE trip for a newhire. Heck, it could have been the flying pilots first 121 landing, we just don't know, and until it can be proven that this particular pilot always makes crappy crosswind landings, I'm not ready to judge him as being a poor pilot.

BTW, my very first 121 DC9 approach and landing were the expressway visual to 31 at LGA. I'll never forget my first DC9 landing. Oh yeah, smooth as a babys behind. Just don't ask about one at TPA later that OE trip.

enigma

 

[Swede]

Enigma, notice I didn't say the pilot was bad, simply that the landing sucked. If one bad landing makes for a bad pilot, we'd all be in trouble!

My position on the 737 nacelle is this... when at TD AOA, the engine is higher up in the air than one might think when looking at it taxiing about. The engines are well forward of the wing, and with a few degrees of pitch, are "elevated" up away from the runway by quite a bit. Now if the touchdown is wing low, AND at a level deck angle, the pilot will have a lot more to worry about than scraping something, he's going to hit hard enough to punch that strut through the wing.

Here's a good picture to illustrate:

http://www.verslo.is/baldur/640/g-ojsw-737-640.jpg

In this picture, imagine the right tires are in contact, and the AOA is at landing, or close to it. Now, roll the airplane to the right. With the tires rather close to the right engine, the right wingtip will probably scrape before the nacelle.

Looking at my engineering outline of the B737, even at 0 degrees deck angle, a line drawn from the tires to the wingtip barely touch the bottom of the nacelle. I think people imagine the engines are farther out on the wings than they are.