Rumor... NJA... Rumor

[niteflyr]

Flush bid - Junior guys hate it, senior guys love it. Seniority is something that has not meant much in the current CBA, and I think this is intended to correct it.

Contract length - This is a glass half full or half empty sort of thing. If business keeps booming until 2016 we could be losing some pay increases. If things level off or dip a bit, we are protected with a decent pay scale for 9 years.
It all depends on how we choose to view it. I personally will take any money offered now and do my own work with it to make it grow for the future.

Glad to see the insurance thing was not a new problem, you did scare me with that one!

 

[bosdrx]

From a newbie.... Whats the flush bid all about? Something about an NJA/NJI merger? How would it affect the most junior on the list?

 

[netjetwife]

ERISA is an illusion---

NJwife, I never said anything about the need for the retiree health care needing to go away.

My apologies, Buck, for misunderstanding your post. When you said "We also were told by the union that it should go away". I was thinking of the retirement health coverage that had been previously discussed in the thread as it is the Union's position (based on legal advice) that because of ERISA the company plan should be avoided. I urge those currently paying for employer-sponsored retirement health coverage to research ERISA for themselves and make alternative plans. The problems associated with ERISA are well known in the legal arena. My reaction would be the same regardless of IBB. The only connection between the two is that my husband was in the room when the lawyers advised 1108 leaders that ERISA is seriously flawed. ERISA is an illusion; remove the mask and the ugliness is readily apparent.

Passing on important information,
Netjetwife

PS As always I find it appalling that many frac pilots are so poorly paid that they have difficulties providing for their current needs, much less their future ones. Good luck to all of you seeking fair wages!

 

[learflyer]

Dang, you guys will never be happy no matter what kind of contract you sign! You'll bich and whine for thirty years and before you know it it'll be the end of your careers, and you didn't enjoy the ride. Stop trying to push your luck with this union $hit! Yes, i'm pro-union.

 

[McLovin]

I agree with LearFlyer. Stop the complaints. This will not only improve Netjets Pilots paycheck, but the whole private aviation sector. Even the mom and pop charter outfit should see some benefits. It did when the CBA signed in 2005, why not now too.

Just a flightinfo's newbie 2 cents!

 

[netjetwife]

Please don't include me in that assessment LF. The sentiment, as well as the gender, would be wrong. My family views the TA as a good deal for the pilot group.

 

[netjetwife]

From a newbie.... Whats the flush bid all about? Something about an NJA/NJI merger? How would it affect the most junior on the list?

It has nothing to do with a merger, per say. It refers to awarding a pilot's schedule by seniority-- which is commonplace in aviation. The good news is that your chances of getting your choice increase with seniority. The best news if the TA passes is your significant pay raise and the opportunity to choose from 100 bases. Good luck! If you get the deal you deserve it should take the sting out of a schedule you might not want until you can hold the one you do.

 

[jonjuan]

It has nothing to do with a merger, per say. It refers to awarding a pilot's schedule by seniority-- which is commonplace in aviation. The good news is that your chances of getting your choice increase with seniority. The best news if the TA passes is your significant pay raise and the opportunity to choose from 100 bases. Good luck! If you get the deal you deserve it should take the sting out of a schedule you might not want until you can hold the one you do.

What happens when growth stops or goes backward in the industry and relative seniority does the same thing? You refer to the good news and best news. What about the bad news as it pertains to future stagnant seniority?

 

[netjetwife]

....OK so there's one con going away. See I'm starting to be swayed already. Let's see if anyone can convince me that the longevity of the deal is really a good thing for us. I haven't seen anything from the Union yet that is making me warm and fuzzy about an 8 1/2 year contract!....

Start with SCOPE: read job security and the opportunity for NJA pilots to fly internationally as opposed to all of those flights being done by NJI and NJE. Those who follow closely are very pleased with this development. Add excellent benefits locked in for 8 years, along with the guarantee of good wages (with COLA) and a signing bonus worth thousands of dollars depending on your seniority. That is money now that might not be acquired when the current contract becomes amendable. Potential risks: In 2010 will the Union be led by a group as talented as SU with volunteers as dedicated as those that worked on IBB? ( just because burn-out isn't discussed doesn't mean it isn't a problem). Will the same favorable economic and cultural climate pilots now enjoy with the company be there in the future? Prior to the 2005 CBA profits poured into NJE were not made available to NJA pilots. This is your chance to lock in a good deal before the parent company again turns their attention away. If you turn down the company's fair offer now how accommodating will they be in 2010?? Human nature says not much. How much money will be left on the table? Let's see...a 5 yr 7&7 Captain would miss out on $128,163 and one on the reserve would leave behind $178,423. The lowest paid 7&7 pilot would lose $158,800 and the new hires on the reserve would be denied $221,740. The difference between the CBA and the TA are substantial and could mean a huge QOL increase for many NJ pilots and their families. In addition: the pre-rat pilots would gain 95 bases; the post-ratters would see HBA binding language not in the CBA; all would be offered an additional schedule choice; all could make more money by selling back PTO days at 110% and pilots turning 50 yrs old will be given a 50% matching "catch up" contribution to their 401K to help plan a secure retirement--a better deal than those nearing retirement currently have.

I think Union leaders are counting on the NJ pilots being able to recognize a good deal when they see one. Maybe they are so well versed in contract issues that all the info seems intuitive to them? Perhaps they believe they have already proven their ability to lead the pilots in the right direction? Could it be that the same group who worked on the current contract so many are satisfied with think they have earned a vote of confidence and are just taking a well deserved break before going out to meet the pilots and answer their questions? I know my husband can't believe that any NJ pilot viewing the contract as a whole will not see the merit in it. To him the condition the company must meet to extend the contract is well worth it. Sure sounds to me like the two sides worked out a fair exchange during IBB. NJW

 

[Go Fly]

Lear, you couldn't be more wrong.

Dang, you guys will never be happy no matter what kind of contract you sign! You'll bich and whine for thirty years and before you know it it'll be the end of your careers, and you didn't enjoy the ride. Stop trying to push your luck with this union $hit! Yes, i'm pro-union.

Man do you have this one wrong lear. I'm about as happy as I can be with my job. Happiness is exactly what the problem is. I think the majority of pilots at NetJets are perfectly happy with the current CBA and their overall QOL and job. I don't see any reason to change the current conract at all as it pertains to me and my family. We are doing just fine right now plus I am close to upgrade so we'll be doing even better then.

So what are you saying? Should we all just paint a big smile on our faces, wag our tails, roll over and play dead because the union leaders say we should? Should we kiss Santulli's ring, bend over and take whatever crap he wants to cram in because he throws a little money our way?

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the IBB but in my opinion the company is getting much more out of it than the majority of the pilots are. The only pilots that are getting a huge benefit from it are the post rat guys. Do they deserve a break? Absolutely. But that can't come at the expense of the majority of the pilot group. In fact, for all the post rat guys that will be getting a big raise there are very senior guys who will be taking a pay cut over the length of the contract.

Now, all that being said, I think it is a fairly substantial pay increase for most of the pilot group. Enough in fact to convince me to overlook most of the cons. The only thing I can't get past is the term of the contract. I have never seen a contract longer than five years that was any good. Even five years is a little long just ask the guys that fought for the current CBA and the pilots at ASA how long their five years turned in to.

All the union has to do is convince me that the longevity of the contract is truly good for the pilots. If they can't I'll be voting no. Why Because I am happy with the way things are now and don't see the IBB as an improvement.