Rumor... NJA... Rumor

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshot,
Not to be a smart ass, but your mangement is blowing something up your backside. The language is huge and from the response I got from mangement when I questioned them on it the other day, I would say they are serious.

It isn't merger language, it is amount of international flying language.

Did you see the "Yeah, right" comment on my post??

I KNOW they are blowing sunshine.

As I understand it, unless 1108 pilots are doing 85% of trans-oceanic flying by a certain date (2012 or 2013 I think), the IBB agreement cannot be extended the aditional 3 years. The only way that number can be achieved is for NJI to become an 1108 shop.

On the other hand, RTS may be planning to NOT extend the agreement the extra 3 years and doesn't care whether the 85% target is met thereby keeping NJI a non-union shop.

What I don't know, and maybe someone can answer, is whether this language will pre-empt a filing next November. It could be that BOTH sides recognize that the legal avenue would be costly and destructive with no better than a 50-50 shot for either side and this is a gradual, face-saving way to integrate the seniority lists over the long term.

All I DO know is that NJI management is keeping any information they do have on the issue very close to the vest.

 

[B19 Flyer]

No, QOL is measured by how one feels when they are OFF work, influenced greatly by how much time one gets off each month, and how much one makes. Funny how that works.
It's called sulking.

Don't agree. QOL is 24/7.

QOL is based on what happens when you are AT work more than when you are off work because it allows balance. If you can't wait to get off work, then you are in the wrong career.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Don't agree. QOL is 24/7.

QOL is based on what happens when you are AT work more than when you are off work because it allows balance. If you can't wait to get off work, then you are in the wrong career.

Problem is, riding mountain bikes, waterskiing, and making love to my wife don't pay very well. Gotta do something to pay the bills. I don't live to work, I work to live.

 

[netjetwife]

....
As I understand it, unless 1108 pilots are doing 85% of trans-oceanic flying by a certain date (2012 or 2013 I think), the IBB agreement cannot be extended the aditional 3 years. The only way that number can be achieved is for NJI to become an 1108 shop.

On the other hand, RTS may be planning to NOT extend the agreement the extra 3 years and doesn't care whether the 85% target is met thereby keeping NJI a non-union shop. That possibility was considered and the language includes financial penalties in the event that route is chosen. It's a formula so it sounds like it could be expensive in application. I was told that's the idea.

What I don't know, and maybe someone can answer, is whether this language will pre-empt a filing next November. There's nothing in writing, but your guess seems logical to me. It could be that BOTH sides recognize that the legal avenue would be costly and destructive with no better than a 50-50 shot for either side I agree with this viewpoint/speculation. and this is a gradual, face-saving way to integrate the seniority lists over the long term. Here, our views change slightly. I don't see it as face-saving as much as reputation saving. The owners won't be pleased if the brand name is sullied in a messy, public court case. That's not the image NJA/I pilots strive for is it? Having read the penalty language in the 85% clause, I didn't get the idea that the integration would be drawn out over a long time period. It sounds like it was written to make it cost-prohibitive for RTS to back out of the deal.

All I DO know is that NJI management is keeping any information they do have on the issue very close to the vest.

Perhaps they don't want to hear lots of complaining and/or questioning regarding a decision they can do nothing about? So they'll tell the pilots just before hand, not months in advance? I'm just guessing, but I don't think your need to know your future is as high a priority to them as theirs is right now. The pilots will all be integrated and keep working, but will the managers? They may be too preoccupied with figuring out the details to share them just yet. Regardless of the reason being in limbo is difficult and I wish you and your fellow NJI pilots the best.
NJW

 

[RTRHD]

Perhaps they don't want to hear lots of complaining and/or questioning regarding a decision they can do nothing about? So they'll tell the pilots just before hand, not months in advance? I'm just guessing, but I don't think your need to know your future is as high a priority to them as theirs is right now. The pilots will all be integrated and keep working, but will the managers? They may be too preoccupied with figuring out the details to share them just yet. Regardless of the reason being in limbo is difficult and I wish you and your fellow NJI pilots the best.
NJW

I wonder what the owners are going to say????? No flame intended.

 

[Ultra Grump]

On the other hand, RTS may be planning to NOT extend the agreement the extra 3 years and doesn't care whether the 85% target is met thereby keeping NJI a non-union shop.

That possibility was considered and the language includes financial penalties in the event that route is chosen. It's a formula so it sounds like it could be expensive in application. I was told that's the idea.

If this is what you believe, I'm not sure how I should treat the rest of what you're spouting. Section 30.3 specifically states that if the company decides not to exercise the option to extend the agreement, the agreement will renew itself for one-year periods unless either party wishes to begin negotiations to amend it. No penalties, it just becomes the normal, 5.5-year amendable contract.

 

[netjetwife]

UG, the penalties I referred to are those directly tied to the 85% of international flying clause. The TA is quite clear on the issue, not much reading between the lines is required in this section: 30.2(C)(1)(b) [FONT=Arial,Arial]If the Company fails to meet the eighty-five percent (85%) threshold ... based on the annual calculation of International Revenue Movements, the Company shall pay a monetary penalty for distribution to the pilot group. The penalty shall be calculated by multiplying the number of International Revenue Movements that equate to the IRM shortfall by the flight crew average daily rate, for IRM shortfalls up to thirty percent (30%), after which the penalty shall be doubled (two times the flight crew average daily rate) for shortfalls up to forty percent (40%). For IRM shortfalls exceeding forty percent (40%), the penalty shall be quadrupled to four (4) times the flight crew average daily rate. This is the potentially cost-prohibitive formula I mentioned in my post. I don't think it's a big leap to suggest that the 85% rule is saying that NJA and NJI will be integrated and if they are not then there will be a steep price to pay to the NJA pilots. The cost associated with keeping the pilot groups separate is the reason I think the (presumed) integration would happen sooner rather than later. GSD wasn't aware of the penalty and I can understand his desire to be as fully informed as possible. The situation you are bringing up is a different matter. I think the impact of the 85% rule is not being fully appreciated by some of the NJ pilots. Those more involved think the contract extension is a fair swap. Reading the language, I don't think it's out of line to view it as an out of court settlement, if you will. [/FONT]

 

[gutshotdraw]

If this is what you believe, I'm not sure how I should treat the rest of what you're spouting. Section 30.3 specifically states that if the company decides not to exercise the option to extend the agreement, the agreement will renew itself for one-year periods unless either party wishes to begin negotiations to amend it. No penalties, it just becomes the normal, 5.5-year amendable contract.

Grump,

We're not sure what to believe just yet because we are getting the mushroom treatment. We don't have access to the actual language of the IBB, especially the scope section. We also haven't been provided with access to the VSL. So far, I'm going off bits and pieces I've obtained from several sources including a friend heavily involved in the process on your side of the house. Our management is remarkably silent but at least we can start ordering our new uniforms today......

 

[gutshotdraw]

Perhaps they don't want to hear lots of complaining and/or questioning regarding a decision they can do nothing about? So they'll tell the pilots just before hand, not months in advance? I'm just guessing, but I don't think your need to know your future is as high a priority to them as theirs is right now. The pilots will all be integrated and keep working, but will the managers? They may be too preoccupied with figuring out the details to share them just yet. Regardless of the reason being in limbo is difficult and I wish you and your fellow NJI pilots the best.
NJW

NJW, I'm not sure what the motivation may be to remain silent but I do know one thing: If (or apparently when) the pilot seniority list integration occurs, I can only hope that day-to-day control for the Gulfstream operation remains in Hilton Head. Some may complain that it is a duplication of fixed costs but, like it or not, utilization, efficiency, operational income, and most importantly, crew quality of life have been GREATLY improved since the NOC was established in Okatie. Union shop or not, I most certainly DO NOT want CMH running (ruining?) my working life again.

 

[Some guy]

What a bunch of winers. I've never heard of so many people b!tch about a raise.

Here at Bridgeway, we are estatic to get our 3% raises every year.

 

[RTRHD]

NJW, I'm not sure what the motivation may be to remain silent but I do know one thing: If (or apparently when) the pilot seniority list integration occurs, I can only hope that day-to-day control for the Gulfstream operation remains in Hilton Head. Some may complain that it is a duplication of fixed costs but, like it or not, utilization, efficiency, operational income, and most importantly, crew quality of life have been GREATLY improved since the NOC was established in Okatie. Union shop or not, I most certainly DO NOT want CMH running (ruining?) my working life again.

Well you dont get Pm's if you will BB me with your personal stuff I will send you everything.....But do you know who i iam ask Wolfe

 

[x402]

What a bunch of winers. I've never heard of so many people b!tch about a raise.

Spelling counts...... and there are other issues involved that buckets of money don't resolve.
But we whine, we're pilots, it's a tradition.

 

[Diesel]

Take away the union/non union argument.

As someone who has worked for both sides of ops in both cmh and okatie, as well as most NJI pilots... Scheduling, dispatching, and long haul ops that okatie provides over cmh is second to none.

Its night and day and can't even be compared.

 

[jtf]

We need an LOA that uses NJI's schedulers and boots the CMH bunch out of the picture for NJA operations- and specifies that no current NJA schedulers may switch sides in the process. This addition would help many on the fence into a yes vote. No amount of contractual language will be able to effectively make current NJA scheduling accountable.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Take away the union/non union argument.

As someone who has worked for both sides of ops in both cmh and okatie, as well as most NJI pilots... Scheduling, dispatching, and long haul ops that okatie provides over cmh is second to none.

Its night and day and can't even be compared.

:beer:

Dice-K better step up tonight, amigo!