NJW Alright, once again, I am happy with the money. Don't have any issues with it. We're beating a dead horse on the money issue.
I beg to differ. GF, many aren't making acceptable wages, namely those at the bottom of the list and most families welcome a pay raise and a bonus. But this isn't all about money. There is much, much, much more to it.
After the big issue of pay comes bases for those in the Union who are stuck in 5 Domiciles--adding 95 is a huge jump with a QOL impact. Having an additional schedule to choose from is very appealing and many welcome a PTO system that allows them to bid for days off in advance and sell back PTOs at 110%. Those thousands of dollars can add to family coffers if the TA passes. That is another financial improvement from IBB. But you don't want to talk about money, so how about those changes in the Training Section--some positive firsts there, and the "no stacking" rule will open up more positions--gotta be happy about that. More pilots making more...well, you know...
Those well deserved pay raises for NRFO, check pilots, and TRs are good news, huh? The two thoughts do go together, you know...
But you have no more ability than I do to tell what the state of the national economy or NetJets financial is going to be in the year 2016.
Agreed, but I do know what a substantial pay raise will mean to families right now. And the bonu$ is a very big deal to lots of us. It could buy big QOL items that can be enjoyed from here on out and/or it could be invested now to provide greater financial security in the future. ... there is no guarantee our COLA increases we keep up with inflation that far in advance.
That problem with the 2005 contract was addressed in IBB. The yearly pay raises thru 2012 (in the TA) are an increase over the CBA and will cover current inflationary rates. As an additional precaution: 30.2(C)(2)(a)The Company will agree, at the time of exercising the option, to adjust upward each of the wage scales in Section 27 of the Basic Agreement in each year of the option period. These adjustments will be made on May 22nd, 2013, 2014, and 2015, and will equal the CPI-U percentage increase during the immediately preceding calendar year (computed from December 1 to November 30), as published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So you see 1108 was looking out for NJ pilots and their families. Please retract false information that may needlessly worry others. Everything is a gamble here. For those things not guaranteed (like what happens if the TA doesn't pass?) I suggest that many people don't like gambling and prefer a "bird in the hand", especially when it's helping to feather their own nest. How's that for mixing metaphors...
As for your response to my question: In 2010 will the Union be led by a group as talented as SU with volunteers as dedicated as those that worked on IBB? Perhaps they'll be better! Unfortunately, pay scales prior to the SU led 2005 CBA and recent MEC elections (2 positions were awarded by default because no one else ran) don't support much optimism in this case. The concern about volunteers becoming burned-out shouldn't be taken lightly. For several years their personal plans have been postponed for the greater good so I'm relieved to see that you're not counting on current leaders to carry the no-voters' fight forward if IBB doesn't pass. Union leaders support passage of the TA that picks up where the 2005 CBA left off and represents overall progress for the pilot group.
Will the same favorable economic and cultural climate pilots now enjoy with the company be there in the future?
Perhaps they too will be better! NJ bargaining history and typical human attitudes don't support your hopes. Profits were poured into expansion while NJ pilots waited years for wage increases. Now is a great time to grab a deal while NJE is pulling its on weight and before BH turns its eye (and dollars) toward the next frac frontier. Most people get disgruntled when they feel their help/overtures are rejected and they are less inclined to accommodate your requests next time around. Considering all the time and effort that was put into IBB by both sides, I think it's more realistic that the NJ pilots will get a distinctly cooler reception next time they approach the bargaining table --if they slap the hand that was held out to them this time.
Scope: Yes, I agree, integrating NJI will provide us with more job security.
A paramount priority so I'm not surprised you agree. I really don't care about the international flying. Just more work dealing with customs and it takes me farther away from my family if something happens.
Many of your fellow pilots will view it differently and they should not be denied the opportunity. If you're not interested, don't bid the plane. But why do we have to give three years to the company if we integrate?
You have to give something to get something and most companies prefer to have their labor costs known so that they can focus on opportunities. The deal does come with higher wages for the pilots. Prior to IBB the union seemed fairly confident in getting the integration done. What percipitated the change? I don't believe this justifies the 3 years we have to pay for it.
Not the integration done, only the process started. Big difference. You're misreading their determination to file the single carrier suit. It would be left to the court system where it could take years, cost tons of money...
and there is no guarantee the NJA pilots would win. This way, the entire group works together, protecting the brand name from bad publicity and expanding the business. NJ families get job security, QOL provided by good wages, and the pilots will have future opportunities they are paid to explore instead of spending time and money fighting to get the chances they deserve.
Finally, if the union leaders think that just because they did a good job on the CBA that we should just take their word for it on IBB they are very naive.
If they thought that they wouldn't have worked tirelessly to get the documents out ASAP and then spend more of their personal time answering questions...
And I know they aren't.
Ooops..I'm responding as I go...sorry.. :blush:
You're right. SU has some very sharp leaders/volunteers. 
They have presented something to us that they feel is good.
Yes, and as you pointed out, they do have a good track record. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them....
True, but I do hope that you'll take their past performance into account and throughly review the TA that will bring significant overall gains. I'm not just going to blindly follow them just because I think they are doing a good job.
Nor have they asked you to. Union leaders stand by their work and value fellow pilots that embrace self-education and a strong work ethic. I am patiently waiting for them to start explaining their logic and reasoning.
Thanks. The last month was brutal with very long hours and lots of hard work when they realized that the time was right to work together on a better CBA for all involved. Based on what I have seen and read so far, the 2016 deal makes this a no vote for me.
I cringed when I read that too, but I asked questions and got a full explanation on the importance of Scope. I'd also like to see NJ families have stress-free time to enjoy life without having to fight later for the wages that are currently being offered by the TA now. But I remain open minded and 100% willing to make a change if the leadership can convince me it's a good idea....
There is a special section of the NJ pilots' board reserved for asking IBB questions, the leadership takes emails and phone calls from the members, and Road Shows are being planned to give pilots the chance to ask questions directly and hear firsthand the team's experience and insight gained during IBB.
