Rough times at United

[pgcfii2002]

"Lets send it over to Marv Albert for the play by play."

GOOD ONE!!!

 

[Fox-Tree]

Now if i may....... i am not totally schooled on this subject but have a grasp of it. if i am not mistaken was there not hundreds of CAL pilots who crossed the line, should they die too? When another airline undercuts another for their regional routes, and ALPA pilots get laid off or a bad schedule becuase of downsizing, isn't that scabbing, but sanctioned by aLPa because its done by another ALPA carrier??????/ Think about it buddy. I once while a new hire was told that during a pending strike I and my other class mates were instructed to still come to work and finish training, but not, repeat not conduct a revenue flight. That is what was said, and in the back of the union meeting a few were saying that they would slash tires of anyone coming to the training center................anyone. Knowing full well we were instructed to be there, by our union. to that I said anyone slashing my tires would lose thier medical......and maybe the ability to function as a normal person because of the beating i would give him. It never happened, but i assure you, i would have stopped at nothing to hurt him.

that said, police ALPA and its double standard before you knock someone for making a decision to make a living for his or her family.

PS can anyone tell me where this list is??????

Obviously you're not schooled in this. The hundreds of CAL pilots who scabbed should never be forgotten and I think it's a travesty that ALPA has let some of them back in. Scabbing is crossing a legal picket line and performing whatever duties the union decided BEFORE the strike were not to be performed. Everyone knows the score before the strike starts. Scabbing has nothing to do with getting laid off or a bad schedule due to some other issue. Sounds to me like the union laid out the rules for you and you would have been okay abiding by them. The rougue idiots in the back of the room threatening tires were wrong. That's not ALPA's fault.

There are plenty of ways to make a living for your family. That's never an excuse for scabbing.

 

[fareview]

Back to the original issue:
I'll bet he's one of the HUNDREDS of scabs at that airline. That guy probably would have stiffed the driver pre-paycut. It shouldn't (and doesn't) reflect badly on the good guys there.

The 17 scabs at Fedex should thank God every day that the general pilot population at Fedex doesn't seem to care that they're on the property. When I got to Fedex, I couldn't believe they didn't even have a list!! If those 17 were at UAL, they would dread coming to work (as it should be.)

The issue of Scabs ia an issue of principle...could you not have shown some of that by not joining an airline that actively employs the above.

No offense...just wondering.

fv

 

[Fox-Tree]

All I can say is, wow. It only took about 20 threads for this tool to re-direct this thread towards another SCAB problem. It only took me a few seconds to figure out you were a prior military fighter-type guy. I bet your a ball to work with.

You may want to take your frustrations out with your company's union about your company's problems.

WTF is your problem? I am a ball to work with as long as you're not a scab. All I did was bring up the possibility that the UAL pilot, who was the subject of this first post in this thread, might have been a scab. In my experience there, most of the pilots who pulled that kind of crap or some other questionable behavior, ended up being on the scab list. The guy who started the thread wasn't looking to generate a "should we tip or not" discussion. Seemed to me he wanted to throw an indictment toward all UAL pilots just because one idiot stiffed the van driver.

So, the real problem is you have a problem with "prior military fighter pilots". What are you, another frustrated FAIP with a bad attitude? Should have done a little better at UPT - that ain't my fault, Napoleon.

BTW - "threads" are the groups of "posts" on FI. This one is titled "Rough times at United". So, it took 20 "posts" for me to turn the "thread" toward scabs. When you make a statement like, “I'll bet you are a ball to work with” - and you choose to shorten it with a contraction, the "you" and the "are" go together to make "you're" - not "your".

Have a nice day, little man.

 

[robert_fla]

i always felt that my per diem covered the enormous expense of tipping.

 

[Fox-Tree]

The issue of Scabs ia an issue of principle...could you not have shown some of that by not joining an airline that actively employs the above.

No offense...just wondering.

fv

I didn't "join" an airline. I was hired by a successful company with great pay/benefits. So, the fact that less than 1% of the pilots at Fedex have shown they have no principles means I should blow off that opportunity? Yeah, I guess the other 4862 pilots who didn't scab should quit on principle.

 

[ualdriver]

I didn't "join" an airline. I was hired by a successful company with great pay/benefits. So, the fact that less than 1% of the pilots at Fedex have shown they have no principles means I should blow off that opportunity? Yeah, I guess the other 4862 pilots who didn't scab should quit on principle.

How did you guys end up with 17 scabs?

 

[GogglesPisano]

If we don't tip, the public will get the impression pilots don't make enormous salaries to go along with their 27 days off a month.

I use the "load a bag = $1" principle.

 

[Fox-Tree]

How did you guys end up with 17 scabs?

12 from Eastern 1989
3 from Continental 1983
2 from Wien Air Alaska 1977 strike.

 

[ualdriver]

12 from Eastern 1989
3 from Continental 1983
2 from Wien Air Alaska 1977 strike.

How did they get hired at FedEx?

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Everybody and their brother wants tip these days, from Chaquita at Quizno's ito the stoner dude at Subway. I'm also hate tipping every time I turn around. Here's a good tip, get a real job. I was self emplyed all the way thru college. Work for yourself and you won't have to worry about tips. I didn't have 2 nickels to rub together but got a loan at a bank when I was 20 and ran a business all the way thru college. My business didn't make me rich, far from it as a matter of fact, but I made a lot more than any hourly worker and probably did half the work. I have worked many hourly jobs from delivering pizza to working at a grocery store, these jobs are what motivated to me start a small business. If I can do it and be somewhat successful anyone can.

 

[Fox-Tree]

How did they get hired at FedEx?

Same way everyone else did. HR, management, etc. at Fedex, UAL or anywhere else doesn't give a rats @ss if a pilot scabbed. You'd hope if the Captains doing the interviews were ALPA, they'd shoot them down but obviously that doesn't always happen.

Check your UAL scab list. You've got Eastern and Continental scabs too. How did they get hired at UAL?

 

[ualdriver]

Same way everyone else did. HR, management, etc. at Fedex, UAL or anywhere else doesn't give a rats @ss if a pilot scabbed. You'd hope if the Captains doing the interviews were ALPA, they'd shoot them down but obviously that doesn't always happen.

Check your UAL scab list. You've got Eastern and Continental scabs too. How did they get hired at UAL?

I don't think those scumbags got "hired" per se. They probably just crossed my predecessors' picket line in '85. I doubt they would get past a "regular" interview simply because it used to be a one pilot/one HR interview set-up. But maybe my timeline is screwed up?

I was asking you because I was surprised you guys wouldn't have pilots on your hiring board to put the kabosh on any scab getting hired.......

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Tipping is out of control. Obviously I always tip the van drivers and usually tip most servers generously (i.e. 20-30%) but I don't agree with it. All service and taxes should be reflected in the cost of everything. This is how it is in many countries

Why should anyone have to pay a van driver to take them to a hotel. The hotel should pay the van driver a normal wage, and this cost should be reflected in the hotel rates. Why should these costs be passed on to the airline employees. It is a cost of doing business that we should not be paying for.

Part of me admires anyone who refuses to tip. I hate feeling pressure to tip for everything I buy.

What do you mean you don't tip, Mr. Pink?

 

[indytestdude]

Two words:

PER DIEM.

We get it to pay customary expenses.

 

[Ty Webb]

You clowns are pathetic. It's a lousy buck. You cry about "the race to the bottom", and "the pajama people" riding your airplanes, and yet you're advocating stiffing the van drivers .

Even worse, you're complainign about tipping the same lousy buck that guys were tipping back in he 1980's. Pretty pathetic.

I typically tip two or three dollars. I also leave a buck for the maid. Why? Because I feel very fortunate (always have) and I don't mind spreading a little sunshine around . . . . seems to me like it always comes back to me in one way or another . . . . and I'll bet your pathetic cheapness comes back to you, too, you just don't realize it.

.

 

[bmpilot2003]

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS!! Whatever i do with MY dollar is MY choice, NOT YOURS!

 

[Hawker rider]

I really don't mind tipping, but it truly got out of hand the way it is being done to everybody nowadays.

Transport to and from the airport is in my opinion the responsibility of the company, nevertheless i still tip them mostly. The guys on the airport property at our home base that truly do run faster than that they should (according to paygrade) get a something extra during the holidays from me, something like $30-40 but that's only once a year and these guys drive to often to give them a tip for each occurence.

As far as the scab thing, I too feel that being a scab voids your rights that any union negotiates. I have no compassion for them, but it;s not like the unions or the companies actually do anything to/with them. So there is no incentive for us to do so either.

 

[shooter]

What do you mean you don't tip, Mr. Pink?

:laugh: LMAO:laugh: sounds just like the script!!!!

NICE GUY EDDIE Okay, everybody cough up green for the little lady. Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table. Everybody, that is, except Mr. Pink.
NICE GUY EDDIE C'mon, throw in a buck.
MR. PINK Uh-uh. I don't tip.
NICE GUY EDDIE Whaddaya mean you don't tip?
MR. PINK I don't believe in it.
NICE GUY EDDIE You don't believe in tipping?
MR. BLONDE (laughing) I love this kid, he's a madman, this guy.
MR. WHITE Do you have any idea what these ladies make? They make S#%T.
MR. PINK Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit. Everybody laughs.
NICE GUY EDDIE I don't even know a Jew who'd have the balls to say that. So let's get this straight. You never ever tip?
MR. PINK I don't tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that S---'s for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job.
MR. BLUE Our girl was nice.
MR. PINK Our girl was okay. She didn't do anything special.
MR. BLUE What's something special, take ya in the kitchen and suck your D---? They all laugh.
NICE GUY EDDIE I'd go over twelve percent for that.
MR. PINK Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've been here a long F#&%N time, and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times.
MR. WHITE What if she's too busy?
MR. PINK The words "too busy" shouldn't be in a waitress's vocabulary.
NICE GUY EDDIE Excuse me, Mr. White, but the last thing you need is another cup of coffee. They all laugh.
MR. PINK These ladies aren't starvin to death. They make minimum wage. When I worked for minimum wage, I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tipworthy.
NICE GUY EDDIE Ahh, now we're getting down to it. It's not just that he's a cheap bastard—
MR. ORANGE --It is that too—
NICE GUY EDDIE --It is that too. But it's also he couldn't get a waiter job. You talk like a pissed off dishwasher: "F--- those C$%#S and their F#&%G tips."
MR. BLUE So you don't care that they're counting on your tip to live? Mr. White rubs two of his fingers together.
MR. PINK Do you know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin, playing just for the waitresses.
MR. WHITE You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their ARSE. This is a hard job.
MR. PINK So's working at McDonald's, but you don't feel the need to tip them. They're servin ya food, you should tip em. But no, society says tip these guys over here, but not those guys over there. That's bullS---.
MR. ORANGE They work harder than the kids at McDonald's.
MR. PINK Oh yeah, I don't see them cleaning fryers.
MR. BROWN These people are taxed on the tips they make. When you stiff 'em, you cost them money.
MR. WHITE Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get, and make a living on. The reason is because of tips.
MR. PINK F--- all that. They all laugh.
MR. PINK Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's f F#&%D up. But that ain't my fault. it would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government F---s in the ARSE on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non- college bullS--- you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to F#&%N type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big F#&%N surprise.
MR. ORANGE He's convinced me. Give me my dollar back. Everybody laughs. Joe's comes back to the table.
JOE Okay ramblers, let's get to rambling. Wait a minute, who didn't throw in?
MR. ORANGE Mr. Pink.
JOE (to Mr. Orange) Mr. Pink? (to Mr. Pink) Why?
MR. ORANGE He don't tip.
JOE (to Mr. Orange) He don't tip? (to Mr. Pink) You don't tip? Why?
MR. ORANGE He don't believe in it.
JOE (to Mr. Orange) He don't believe in it? (to Mr. White) You don't believe in it?
MR. ORANGE Nope.
JOE (to Mr. Orange) Shut up! (to Mr. Pink) Cough up the buck, ya cheap bastard, I paid for your godd--- breakfast.
MR. PINK Because you paid for the breakfast, I'm gonna tip. Normally I wouldn't.
JOE Whatever. Just throw in your dollar, and let's move. (to Mr. WHITE) See what I'm dealing with here. Infants. I'm F#&%N dealin with infants.

dialog from Quentin Tarantino's
R E S E R V O I R D O G S

:laugh: you guys crack me up!

 

[Fox-Tree]

I don't think those scumbags got "hired" per se. They probably just crossed my predecessors' picket line in '85. I doubt they would get past a "regular" interview simply because it used to be a one pilot/one HR interview set-up. But maybe my timeline is screwed up?

I was asking you because I was surprised you guys wouldn't have pilots on your hiring board to put the kabosh on any scab getting hired.......

I wish it was as you said - but it isn't. At either company, BTW. Do you have a UAL scab list? You guys have many who were hired well after the 85 strike. They didn't get on the property at UAL by crossing any picket line. They were hired by the "regular" interview. Everyone knows the HR person wore the pants at the UAL interviews during the late 80s/early 90s. Many pilots doing the interviews were management and didn't care about the scab status of a candidate.
Here are a few examples you can check for yourself. Look at the seniority list and check the DOH for these guys. These file #s are CAL scabs hired well after the 85 strike: 104575 (hired Jan89), 54093(Jun86), 136418, 110733(Jul89), 147530(Dec92) and that just gets into the "B" last names. Here's an EAL scab just for good measure: 113588(Jan/90).

Not to lecture but.... Don't you think as a UAL pilot (are you a Captain there or somewhere else on furlough?), you should be aware of this stuff and make a effort to check guys out before you give them a jumpseat or start chatting it up with them in ops? Some of them got back into ALPA and have the pin but that doesn't mean they get to ride or given the time of day. They're still f##king scabs.

 

[Flopgut]

Years ago, I was getting on a van that another company crew was getting off. Once we got going, the driver began to gripe about the FO only giving him a quarter. That FO was getting furloughed, and I explained it to the driver. He half laughed and said something to the effect that being a furloughed pilot must be a "vacation". I usually tip, but I didn't this time and no one else on the van did either.

Not a big revelation on tipping, just a story. Again, I occaisionally don't tip.

 

[ualdriver]

Not to lecture but.... Don't you think as a UAL pilot (are you a Captain there or somewhere else on furlough?), you should be aware of this stuff and make a effort to check guys out before you give them a jumpseat or start chatting it up with them in ops? Some of them got back into ALPA and have the pin but that doesn't mean they get to ride or given the time of day. They're still f##king scabs.

Absolutely.

 

[ualdriver]

I wish it was as you said - but it isn't. At either company, BTW. Do you have a UAL scab list? You guys have many who were hired well after the 85 strike. They didn't get on the property at UAL by crossing any picket line. They were hired by the "regular" interview. Everyone knows the HR person wore the pants at the UAL interviews during the late 80s/early 90s. Many pilots doing the interviews were management and didn't care about the scab status of a candidate.
Here are a few examples you can check for yourself. Look at the seniority list and check the DOH for these guys. These file #s are CAL scabs hired well after the 85 strike: 104575 (hired Jan89), 54093(Jun86), 136418, 110733(Jul89), 147530(Dec92) and that just gets into the "B" last names. Here's an EAL scab just for good measure: 113588(Jan/90).

Just talked to a couple of grey hairs and yes, it was as you state in the mid to late 80's, early 90's. Fortunately, the hiring process is now changed.

 

[Murphy]

what's the consensus on tipping maids?

 

[SuperFLUF]

Times must be rough at United.. A Cpt. stiffed the van driver this morning in BOS..
Grabbed his bags and ran.. The F/O did the right thing and so did we the under paid cargo crew.. not even good enough for a good morning greeting from the cpt.. we covered him..Ill bet the van wont pick United up first after this..
I bet he even claims tips on his taxes..

There are people like that at every airline and in every profession. I am no big fan of United but please.

 

[Snaab]

- The company requires me to take a van to the hotel
- they company require me to stay at this hotel
- the company makes the arrangements with the hotels (for the cheapest deals probably)
- the company demands what times I have to rest/sleep
- the company arranges for transportation
- I agreed with my company to my employment terms which do NOT include
tipping the van drivers 8 -10 times pr week (assuming 4-5 overnights).

- the van driver is employed by the hotel or some other transportation service
- the van driver agreed to his employment terms
- like the previous post said. It should not be the flight crew but the company that should make sure the van driver is paid properly and not
put that extra "requirement" on the crew.

Word-for-word- Amen! I agree whole-heartedly.

-Snaab

 

[Trigger]

Last week, 0455 pick-up at PNS, the contract van driver actually stopped for gas!

No tip for you.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS!! Whatever i do with MY dollar is MY choice, NOT YOURS!

Give it to the under paid UAL pilots that fly you to Hawaii!

 

[bmpilot2003]

Give it to the under paid UAL pilots that fly you to Hawaii!

The under paid UAL pilots deserve a lot more than a dollar for their generosity. Ive never met a UAL pilot i didn't like, i don't care what Ty Webb said about you Sonny. JK:beer:

 

[ThisistheDream]

When the companys claims chapter 11 and demands a paycut for survival and a cut in perdiem which is used for food and tips, I must also consider myself in Chapter 11 and cut cost where I can for my survival, which means less tips.