Rough numbers from each proposal

[JoeMerchant]

Mainly you create more revenue by flying the larger plane with more pax and more cargo capability. The same is done in other industries like Cruise ships, and van vs truck drivers. If more could go wrong if you crash, you are often paid more for that extra responsibility. I know UPS and INTL carriers like Lufthansa do longevity, which means younger Captains flying widebodies abroad, vs senior guys flying closer to home and normal time zones. That could be good and bad I suppose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The "big" airplanes wouldn't be full of revenue if it weren't for the "little" airplanes.....It takes a team effort to make a global airline......

It makes far more sense to allow the young folks to fly the international stuff and let the older folks stay in the close time zones.....It also alleviates all of this "mine is bigger" cr@p we have.....

 

[jetflier]

In 5 years? Remember we have just as many or MORE retirements scheduled than you do in 10 years. So, in 10 years you and I will have moved up the same amount, with both of our sides retiring a large amount. You like to throw out 5 years from now as a point, but forget about our retirements as well.

I do think there will be fences, for aircraft. That will benefit us since your senior pilots are on a lot of narrowbody planes, not able to bid up for widebodies thanks to the Roberts award, which is now over. Since you never did retire a bunch, or have had any wide scale displacements off of large equipment other than the DC10, you have pent up seniority itching to get onto widebodies. We have to watch that, since it isn't our job to make up for the Roberts award. Thank gawd your new manning formula will help relieve that, going to 2 Captains for flights over 12 hours, instead of 1.


And as I edited above in my previous post, apparently I can hold 767 Captain in LA right now, since a '97 hire is doing it there. You said you were on the DC9, right? There is the difference. Not making fun, just giving you some reality.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

With all due respect, and I assume you're a smart guy, Redtail says he's on the DC9 as a Captain, not a F/O on a widebody. That's not making fun, there's nothing to make fun of, unless you're an idiot!
Captains are higher up on the food chain. Due to the greater responsibility required and the increased compensation, it's more than being just a widebody F/O. just checking off waypoints on a flight plan.

How long have you been doing this ? You're answers really surprise me...

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

The "big" airplanes wouldn't be full of revenue if it weren't for the "little" airplanes.....

Interesting. So how did the big airlines survive and thrive when there were no commuter airlines in existence?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The "big airlines" were the commuters. Look at a Delta route map in the 1950's and ASA's route map from 1995. A Convair became an E120, the DC9-10 was an RJ.

IMHO that's still all "mainline flying," just been outsourced. Alter ego in a scale you wish you'd have dreamed up. In fact, I'm surprised the original Frank Lorenzo did not become Johnathan Orenstien.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Interesting. So how did the big airlines survive and thrive when there were no commuter airlines in existence?

It was possible under regulation...Under deregulation the hub and spoke system required feed.....

Pan Am didn't have the domestic feed for it's international "big planes".....

Are you implying that a Delta or UAL could survive with just "big airplanes"?

 

[FDJ2]

72% of your "widebodys" pay the same as the 757.

Which pays the same as the A330. So should we take away your A330s because they pay 757 rates?

So, take away the 80 767's that pay the same as the 757, and you actually only bring 31 widebodies to the table, pay wise Not that many if you ask me.

The 767ER is a wide bodied aircraft that pays the same as the A330, flies to to more continents then the A330 and has longer routes than the A330 , we bring 111 wide bodied aircraft to the party.

You can't propose a list based on pay then try to say that the 767 is different than a 757 even though the pay is the same. Although yourself and bi-polar boy will try.

Your not paying attention. DALPA didn't propose a list based only on pay, if we had the overwhelming majority of NWA pilots would be be stapled under the MD-88. DALPA proposed a list based on comparable categories and status. We didn't take into consideration that our 777s pay more than your 747s or that our 737s pay more than your 757s.

 

[FDJ2]

.

125.52, you were only off by 30%.

Your DC-9 captains only make $125.52? That's about as much as a DAL 767-400 first officer. No wonder your MEC said that if DALPA didn't bring you up to DALPA pay rates you'd be at a "B" scale.

 

[PuffDriver]

It was possible under regulation...Under deregulation the hub and spoke system required feed.....

Pan Am didn't have the domestic feed for it's international "big planes".....

Are you implying that a Delta or UAL could survive with just "big airplanes"?

Nope, but it doesn't matter who feeds Delta's big airplanes. There are many feeders out there who would salivate at doing such feeding. Your lack of reality grasp is not out problem. We are where we are. It is simply not possible, from a standpoint of risk, for Delta to do all of its own flying. Much too much of an "eggs in one basket" thing. Delta and its pilots control the feeder flying anyway via their negotiated contract. The trick is going to be recapturing this flying, and it is off to a good start with the Compass and Mesaba deals already inked. It is my opinion, and I think extremely viable, that this will be the wave of the future. Separate agreements with 100% flow. Kind of a farm club moving up to the big leagues sort of thing. It's a win win for everyone involved. Job security via flow back addresses majors concerns. Advancement, pay opportunity, addresses concerns of younger aviators. Fins, I understand you and ACL concerns regarding all flying done by Delta pilots. Find me a way to convince 11,998 other pilots to walk off their jobs for it and you win. Also, you have to find a way to convince Delta that it is in their best economic interest--akin to keeping flight attendants from unionizing. The way I described seems to be where we are headed long term, seems to be palatable for Delta, and seems to be palatable for the cooperating carriers. The fact it leaves Merchant out is just one of the perks.:nuts:

 

[Fubijaakr]

Hey DOH is a possibility, just a very slim one.

I don't think so. DoH isn't in ALPA merger policy. And even if one of these participants wasn't ALPA, DoH isn't in Allegheny-Mohawk either.

And that's the law of the land, now.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think he answered your question in the affirmative and stated the reason why.

I'll ask you, If we merge with Alaska, should they get DOH on NWA equipment?

Absolutely! LOL! In fact, we should get DoH SYSTEMWIDE!

:bomb: :smash: :uzi: