Rough numbers from each proposal

[General Lee]

General Lee ladies and gentleman.[/quote]


Riiight? And? We bring more to the table. Status quo. It is all being looked at.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Doesn't matter. The NWAALPA Neg Committee was able to get us all a raise, thank you very much, because we brought so much to the table.

... as Little John would say "WHAT!?!"

How's getting brought up to parity with Delta, the "NWAALPA Neg Committee was able to get us all a raise?"

My pay's the same before and after DCC - SKEET SKEET SKEET!

 

[C-135 Backer]

Really

DALPA---relative seniorty after the bottom 400 all NWA due to DC9s being smallest plane and lowest paid, plus some leaving the fleet. Delta pilots would move up 2% on average (from current relative percentage) due to those bottom 400 being all NWA.

So the bottom 400 NWA pilots should be stapled at the bottom despite most being hired 6 years before the Delta pilots?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think he answered your question in the affirmative and stated the reason why.

I'll ask you, If we merge with Alaska, should they get DOH on NWA equipment?

 

[General Lee]

DALPA---relative seniorty after the bottom 400 all NWA due to DC9s being smallest plane and lowest paid, plus some leaving the fleet. Delta pilots would move up 2% on average (from current relative percentage) due to those bottom 400 being all NWA.

So the bottom 400 NWA pilots should be stapled at the bottom despite most being hired 6 years before the Delta pilots?

Are they on planes that could go away? Can any of them hold widebody equipment? Are most of them flying the lowest paid plane in the company? Have you asked the bottom USAir East guy who has 17 years with USAir if he thought it was fair being placed next to the bottom AWA guy? It is called relative seniority, and the top 500 USAir East guys got the top 500 in the combined company too, since they had something AWA didn't have. NWA has something DL doesn't have also, planes leaving.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

The 767 Captain's I fly with have about your DOH.

.....and they are about equals.....767 vs. DC9 really shouldn't be that different....We get way to caught up in "size"......

The Europeans have it right....pay the same regardless of aircraft size.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think he answered your question in the affirmative and stated the reason why.

I'll ask you, If we merge with Alaska, should they get DOH on NWA equipment?

IMO yes they should......Longevity matters....despite what some who think they hit the jackpot by being at the "carrier of the day" think.....

Get over this "mine is bigger than yours" cr@p......

 

[General Lee]

IMO yes they should......Longevity matters....despite what some who think they hit the jackpot by being at the "carrier of the day" think.....

Get over this "mine is bigger than yours" cr@p......

Longevity didn't matter to Nicelau. We don't have a national seniority list. Also, the 767 Captain makes $24 more dollars an hour than the DC9 Captain, which could be $29 if he/she flies INTL routes. That makes a big difference. The only airline that pays for longevity that has different sized planes here in the US is UPS I believe. Until we get the big bucks again like UPS or FEDEx, I don't think any of us will explore that concept.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

Longevity didn't matter to Nicelau. We don't have a national seniority list. Also, the 767 Captain makes $24 more dollars an hour than the DC9 Captain, which could be $29 if he/she flies INTL routes. That makes a big difference. The only airline that pays for longevity that has different sized planes here in the US is UPS I believe. Until we get the big bucks again like UPS or FEDEx, I don't think any of us will explore that concept.

Bye Bye--General Lee

UPS does it and so do many foreign airlines....make much more sense than our screwed up system......What is the logic in how many seats are behind the cockpit door....It creates these silly "size" issues.....

 

[General Lee]

UPS does it and so do many foreign airlines....make much more sense than our screwed up system......What is the logic in how many seats are behind the cockpit door....It creates these silly "size" issues.....

Mainly you create more revenue by flying the larger plane with more pax and more cargo capability. The same is done in other industries like Cruise ships, and van vs truck drivers. If more could go wrong if you crash, you are often paid more for that extra responsibility. I know UPS and INTL carriers like Lufthansa do longevity, which means younger Captains flying widebodies abroad, vs senior guys flying closer to home and normal time zones. That could be good and bad I suppose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

Mainly you create more revenue by flying the larger plane with more pax and more cargo capability. The same is done in other industries like Cruise ships, and van vs truck drivers. If more could go wrong if you crash, you are often paid more for that extra responsibility. I know UPS and INTL carriers like Lufthansa do longevity, which means younger Captains flying widebodies abroad, vs senior guys flying closer to home and normal time zones. That could be good and bad I suppose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The "big" airplanes wouldn't be full of revenue if it weren't for the "little" airplanes.....It takes a team effort to make a global airline......

It makes far more sense to allow the young folks to fly the international stuff and let the older folks stay in the close time zones.....It also alleviates all of this "mine is bigger" cr@p we have.....

 

[jetflier]

In 5 years? Remember we have just as many or MORE retirements scheduled than you do in 10 years. So, in 10 years you and I will have moved up the same amount, with both of our sides retiring a large amount. You like to throw out 5 years from now as a point, but forget about our retirements as well.

I do think there will be fences, for aircraft. That will benefit us since your senior pilots are on a lot of narrowbody planes, not able to bid up for widebodies thanks to the Roberts award, which is now over. Since you never did retire a bunch, or have had any wide scale displacements off of large equipment other than the DC10, you have pent up seniority itching to get onto widebodies. We have to watch that, since it isn't our job to make up for the Roberts award. Thank gawd your new manning formula will help relieve that, going to 2 Captains for flights over 12 hours, instead of 1.


And as I edited above in my previous post, apparently I can hold 767 Captain in LA right now, since a '97 hire is doing it there. You said you were on the DC9, right? There is the difference. Not making fun, just giving you some reality.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

With all due respect, and I assume you're a smart guy, Redtail says he's on the DC9 as a Captain, not a F/O on a widebody. That's not making fun, there's nothing to make fun of, unless you're an idiot!
Captains are higher up on the food chain. Due to the greater responsibility required and the increased compensation, it's more than being just a widebody F/O. just checking off waypoints on a flight plan.

How long have you been doing this ? You're answers really surprise me...

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

The "big" airplanes wouldn't be full of revenue if it weren't for the "little" airplanes.....

Interesting. So how did the big airlines survive and thrive when there were no commuter airlines in existence?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The "big airlines" were the commuters. Look at a Delta route map in the 1950's and ASA's route map from 1995. A Convair became an E120, the DC9-10 was an RJ.

IMHO that's still all "mainline flying," just been outsourced. Alter ego in a scale you wish you'd have dreamed up. In fact, I'm surprised the original Frank Lorenzo did not become Johnathan Orenstien.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Interesting. So how did the big airlines survive and thrive when there were no commuter airlines in existence?

It was possible under regulation...Under deregulation the hub and spoke system required feed.....

Pan Am didn't have the domestic feed for it's international "big planes".....

Are you implying that a Delta or UAL could survive with just "big airplanes"?