Rolling Rest Flexjet Pilot Alert

[Flex-ible]

plenty of people i am sure have held off on writing something up until they got to a maintenance base. isn't that what happened?

What I heard was that he wrote it up, called the FDOM, called the ACP, then called the POI at the FAA to tell him that he had flown the plane after he wrote it up!!!!

 

[Inigo Montoya]

edit: nevermind, no point in speculating

 

[bailey3083]

plenty of people i am sure have held off on writing something up until they got to a maintenance base. isn't that what happened?

There are 2 sides to every story and you have to find a happy place between the two to find the truth.

 

[doylehargraves]

I've had MX ask me to position airplanes with "known discrepancies" too many times to count. Why? because they have no responsibility in doing so. look what happened to him. MX told him to position it, he did, and he got fired for it. Now the company will be signing a check out of our next raise to this guy.

 

[skydan5]

I've had MX ask me to position airplanes with "known discrepancies" too many times to count. Why? because they have no responsibility in doing so. look what happened to him. MX told him to position it, he did, and he got fired for it. Now the company will be signing a check out of our next raise to this guy.

Maintenance doesn't govern pilots. They may persuade us to do things to make their job easier. It's the PIC's (and FO's) authority to fly or not, not a wrench turner. D.I. won't be getting any lawsuit $ for flying an airplane with an admitted airworthiness issue.

Snapper heads at my old freight job would ask us to repo airplanes with inop. trim, etc. to a maintenance base. No can do.

 

[Seahawk]

The company gives you a designated rest period be it 10 hours 14 or whatever. You are never required to answer the phone from the time they put you in rest until you go on duty. If you do answer the phone, you're only setting yourself up for trouble, especially if you and your crew are tired. You going to call them too? Not your responsibility. Some of these captains always answer the phone and never say no. They are the floating rest violaters and they will try to call the FO and the FA and get them up too. Not their job. They are the ones calling the company while they are in rest as well. Again, asking for trouble.The company FOM says they may contact you legally as long as there is 8 hours uninterupted rest. You never have to answer or have your phone on for that matter. The only time I would call the company would be in the last two hours of my rest block to see if things have changed. Why go to the airport and find that the trip was delayed or cancelled? It's floating rest only when you answer the phone and you call the company while in your rest period.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

seahawk you work here right? so if you have a noon flight, you dont turn your phone on until 10am? I doubt it, you'd be fired by now

 

[TurboHonda]

You're exactly right

The company gives you a designated rest period be it 10 hours 14 or whatever. You are never required to answer the phone from the time they put you in rest until you go on duty. If you do answer the phone, you're only setting yourself up for trouble, especially if you and your crew are tired. You going to call them too? Not your responsibility. Some of these captains always answer the phone and never say no. They are the floating rest violaters and they will try to call the FO and the FA and get them up too. Not their job. They are the ones calling the company while they are in rest as well. Again, asking for trouble.The company FOM says they may contact you legally as long as there is 8 hours uninterupted rest. You never have to answer or have your phone on for that matter. The only time I would call the company would be in the last two hours of my rest block to see if things have changed. Why go to the airport and find that the trip was delayed or cancelled? It's floating rest only when you answer the phone and you call the company while in your rest period.

If a company “requires” a pilot to do anything while in an assigned rest period (answer the phone, answer the door, be available, stay in touch, etc.) that pilot is technically on standby. That is the simple truth.

All the FLOPS pilots knew that before they organized. Some pilots ignored the company’s illegal rolling rest. Most did not because they were afraid.

Now that FLOPS is organized, most pilots ignore the rolling rest. Some still do not. But for the most part, rolling rest is a thing of the past at FLOPS.

 

[hammer2]

I've had MX ask me to position airplanes with "known discrepancies" too many times to count. Why? because they have no responsibility in doing so. look what happened to him. MX told him to position it, he did, and he got fired for it. Now the company will be signing a check out of our next raise to this guy.

Doyle, that is wrong! He had every right to ground it in MMSD. He was wrong. Does mx pressure you into taking a broke airplane?Not me!! If it cant be differed, not going. Rule of life!This one is black and white, pilot pulls a stupid out of his a$$ and gets fired! No one has talked about the fact it was his last day, and he was starting his vacation. Funny how many airplanes will only break in addison.

 

[Seahawk]

seahawk you work here right? so if you have a noon flight, you dont turn your phone on until 10am? I doubt it, you'd be fired by now

Well I am still here. What makes you think you have to answer the phone when you have an assignment that will take you off duty at 2am. I would rather be fired then fly fatigued and potentially ruin my career and kill everybody. The way the rules are written now, you have to take control of your own rest management. Those schedulers look at what is legal on their computer screens and can try to call you. That doesn't mean I am safe to fly and have to answer the phone. If I am fired, well I will have enough documentation to make for a nice severance package. It's not worth it.

 

[Fozzy]

seahawk you work here right? so if you have a noon flight, you dont turn your phone on until 10am? I doubt it, you'd be fired by now

Grow a pair.

 

[doylehargraves]

Doyle, that is wrong! He had every right to ground it in MMSD. He was wrong. Does mx pressure you into taking a broke airplane?Not me!! If it cant be differed, not going. Rule of life!This one is black and white, pilot pulls a stupid out of his a$$ and gets fired! No one has talked about the fact it was his last day, and he was starting his vacation. Funny how many airplanes will only break in addison.

Well, did you know that they only fired him AFTER he made a phone call to the FAA?? up to that point, they didn't care about him flying with the engines a quart low and the other problem that was going on. He WAS "wrong" to fly with the discrepancy but, he didn't hear ANYTHING until that call was made. They are pissed that he called them and they were gonna get their revenge, plain and simple.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I've flown with a lot of captains and never came across one that turned his phone off. nobody does that here. And I dont believe anybody here on FLIFO when they say they do. You might talk tough and say that you do, but unless you post on the BlueBelly and say "I turn my phone off" I think you're full of it.

The only way to get it fixed is if we all agree to do it. If one guy turns his phone off, and they try to call him, he'll get called into the office. If he is on the naughty list, he could get fired. I can name one 45 driver that got called early on a day when there were no flight assignments, said fatigued, then ended up in the chief pilots office.

the company gets away with it because so many people put up with it.

 

[luckydog]

Montoya, Call your ACP and ask him what the rest rules are.

Find out when you're required to answer the phone after an "in rest at 1700 lcl" assignment.

I've already had it explained to me but most people don't believe my answer.

The same question has been posted on the blue belly so it shouldn't you on anyone's radar. Make the call.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I know what the ACPs say. That is what they are required to say. Show me a pilot that turns off his phone, and was tried to be contacted by the company during rest, didn't answer, caused a schedule change, and did NOT get in trouble. I know only of pilots that DID get called into the office for "not planning their rest better."

 

[doylehargraves]

I really don't see DG giving us the rules that netjets has. He'll say that our business is just too dynamic to set things in stone. He might be right but, I think netjets can get away with it because they seem to have alot of people sitting around FBO's just waiting to do something; we don't.

I wish they would just put it in writing that there can be absolutely NO CONTACT, electronic or verbal, for AT LEAST 10 HOURS. That IS what we're talking about here.

I do agree that these 2am wake up calls are getting out of hand. There is one excuse to be called at 2 in the morning, and that is POOR PLANNING by the company. I think the rule should be that if you are contacted prior to 4am local, there should be a 10 duty limit followed by a 14 hour rest period. Will they go for this?? Maybe??

All this, however, is a pipe dream at this point and, the only way to get true rest rules is via the union.

 

[DirtyBeech]

It's my understanding that our rest rules will change for the better in short order. A little birdie told me that the FAA has strongly suggested we take a proactive stance in regards to it.

BTW, we have a rest proposal sitting on the desk of those above my paygrade in the crystal palace. We contracted a company to come up with it, and suprise, surpirse, it's very much like what NJ's is doing.

 

[luckydog]

Show me a pilot that turns off his phone, and was tried to be contacted by the company during rest, didn't answer, caused a schedule change, and did NOT get in trouble."

It happens more than people think.

 

[gunfyter]

It's my understanding that our rest rules will change for the better in short order. A little birdie told me that the FAA has strongly suggested we take a proactive stance in regards to it.

BTW, we have a rest proposal sitting on the desk of those above my paygrade in the crystal palace. We contracted a company to come up with it, and suprise, surpirse, it's very much like what NJ's is doing.

I would guess increased hiring and upgrades will follow.

 

[doh]

It's my understanding that our rest rules will change for the better in short order. A little birdie told me that the FAA has strongly suggested we take a proactive stance in regards to it.

BTW, we have a rest proposal sitting on the desk of those above my paygrade in the crystal palace. We contracted a company to come up with it, and suprise, surpirse, it's very much like what NJ's is doing.

I too have heard the little birdie rumour. Not sure about rumours though. But I hope it is true.