RJDC Litigation Update 06-12-07

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You are misguided. It isn't my RJDC, or my Lawsuit. Why are you attacking me?

You seem to be championing their cause right nicely...

Yet when pilots take your advice, you want them tossed from the union and sued personally for supporting reform.

Please Fins... I never advocated sueing ALPA becuase no one agrees with a position....

It happens all the time in a democratic society. A motion, resolution or even free discussion is raised. the majority reject it. That means it is over. Or time to find a new arguement. it doesn't mean lawsuit....

If we had pilots sueing over every pet issue we could never deal with the real internal problems....we'd be bogged down in our own organization

Jeesh, glad I'm only a guy on a web board who has a different view than you do.

Difference of opinion is fine. in fact welcomed. Debate helps progress. But the RJDC takes it past debate. You've taken hard core destructive action and now that a "response in kind" is being suggested you are getting defensive...

Do you honestly expect to sue ALPA and not get resistance.. reprecussions? Did you not consider that by bringing a gun [aka lawsuit] to a knife fight that someone might go out to their truck and get their gun?

But your juvenile threats don't do much to advance your cause.

Juvenile threats? See... it is ok for the RJDC to sue but if a member uses the legitamite process of ALPA C&BL to article VIII a RJDC pilot then is wrong or juvinile or negative? Another double standard and hyprocasy....[sp]

If you honestly think you are doing "gods" work...then why aren't you accepted by the majority?

As for the information about Malone. Thanks, that is different than the version I heard.

no comment as I am not party........

 

[PCL_128]

maybe as a non ASA ALPA pilot I'll politik an ASA pilot clique to go to the next ASA LEC meeting with a C&BL Article VIII resolution to ban the leaders of the RJDC from ever being ALPA members again....

Please do! But don't limit it to the named litigants; everyone who has been an open advocate of this organization or the lawsuit should be expelled from the Association as soon as this is dismissed on summary judgment.

Yes, that means you too, Joe!

 

[~~~^~~~]

You seem to be championing their cause right nicely...

You've taken hard core destructive action and now that a "response in kind" is being suggested you are getting defensive...

Do you honestly expect to sue ALPA and not get resistance.. reprecussions?

Juvenile threats? See... it is ok for the RJDC to sue but if a member uses the legitamite process of ALPA C&BL to article VIII a RJDC pilot then is wrong or juvinile or negative? Another double standard and hyprocasy....[sp]

If you honestly think you are doing "gods" work...then why aren't you accepted by the majority?

What is with "You, You, You?" Do people sue the weatherman because he reports it is raining? It is not my lawsuit. If I happen to "champion the cause" then accuse me of an editorial slant. As for "hard core destructive action" please tell all of us what I have done. Has my writing actually resulted in anything other than making you mad?

Your threat to go after anyone who ever said anything nice about Dan Ford, Ken Cooksey, or the other Plaintiffs is so rediculous that it hardly bears comment. Sue their mothers and me too for all I care. I will be pleased to accept service at my office, or at work, saving you the $90 on the Process Server. Talk about a frivolous action.

And an Article VIII motion - you are not the first Cowboy to think of that. This rodeo has been going on for seven long years now. But who else do you propose to kick out? We have one EVP who sued ALPA on a DFR claim, another very close to home who brought a resolution to the floor critical of Delta's bargaining on phantom aircraft and a whole bunch of Delta pilots who sued ALPA and got a big settlement. As for Joe, he might not even mind getting booted.

As for minority rights and doing "God's work" I am no messiah. I'm not even Michael Boyd. But the majority killed Jesus, in case you forgot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe tonight I just caught you guys after your 5th beer. Cheers.

 

[737 Pylt]

Yet when pilots get involved, you want them tossed from the union and sued personally for supporting reform.

Isn't the rjdc suiing my union? Yep, you want to bankrupt my union for no other reason than to benefit financially, you deserved to be sued, and tossed!

...and I'm just some guy on a web board, not even a Plaintiff, or a "leader."

Yet you seem to be so well versed in their cause.....Are you a sympathizer then?

You surely must realize that your misguided threats against a guy who simply comments about the merits of the case (and who has no input on what the RJDC does) doesn't make ALPA look very accommodating of minority views.

Threats?? Is this the same filter that you use to post that John Malone was recalled, or that your pass privileges were revoked because of the evil DMEC?

In fact, I think your behavior illustrates why ALPA has a representational problem and why pilots have failed to vote for ALPA representation in their last four votes.

My behavior is just trying to stop a bunch of undesirables in the industry with dui's and no college from stealing my flying and abbrogating my contract!

I have been arguing for ALPA on the SkyWest property and for support of ALPA's representational structure on the local level. When others wanted to start a decertification drive, I am the moderate that stood up against it. In many ways I do not like the way the RJDC litigation is going, I had hoped for reform.

In the form of no less than $2 million per pilot, and $100 million in punitive damages!?

Since all internal attempts met the same attitudes you exhibit, litigation is the only remaining way to move ALPA towards compliance with its fiduciary duty to its members.

[sarcasm]Ok then, I hate the Iraq war, I'm going to sue my government! [/sarcasm] You guys are so pathetic!

However, continued intransigence, which you so aptly illustrate, is going to result in this being about money. What you failed to consider is that I don’t like that outcome any more than you do. As an ALPA member, I too will pay the price for ALPA’s wrongdoing. As an ASA pilot I simply will get to pay that price, twice. Once with 13 month Captain upgrades at SkyWest on my equipment and the second time with whatever portion of my dues money goes to pay for ALPA's legal settlements. (The last big one went to Delta pilots in the Miller v. ALPA case - BTW)

The only real winners ever seem to be are the lawyers......How's haber doing these days??

The only way any of us benefit is for ALPA to reform.

That's the only statement you typed that I can agree with.
Your answer seems the shotgun attempt! Don't like the way things are going, then just sue!
Again, I just don't understand why you would want to work with these evil DL pilots with all that vitrol you spew. Experience aside, and I know you possess it, I just don't know how you'd fit in here. I mean, who would you force all your blame on for all your issues?!
Rant over,
737

 

[Captzaahlie]

Personally, I would love it if there was no reason for the RJDC to exist and if the RJDC was made irrelevant. But the very fact that ASA is down to one base with Chautauqua, Mesa, Freedom, SkyWest, Comair, Republic, Jet Express performing flying once performed by ASA pilots, with Pinnacle and more Mesa waiting in the wings while ASA's CNC is undermined by ALPA's own predatory bargaining for phantom aircraft reality is more real here on the ramp.

Get ready to be continuously reamed, we all did at useless airways wholly owneds (more like "wholly boned") commuters. Now mainline has"f"-ed themselves with the west merger...... I want to see Alpa try and dig them out of that mess after an arbitrator has made his rule.
It's almost like what comes around goes around..... all the while the "union brotherhood" just flings excrement on one another like a bunch of monkeys in a cage.................. seems like the union brotherhood stuff is tossed out the window when people see the bananas disappearing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What is with "You, You, You?" Do people sue the weatherman because he reports it is raining? It is not my lawsuit. If I happen to "champion the cause" then accuse me of an editorial slant. As for "hard core destructive action" please tell all of us what I have done. Has my writing actually resulted in anything other than making you mad?

Fins you are in the same political camp as the RJDC. Your tent is right next to Dan Fords.

Are you, perhaps, starting to understand how pilots really feel about the RJDC? This isn't some hobby or past time...maybe for the RJDC, but not for the rest of us.... While the RJDC might think this is 'nothing-to-lose-something-to-gain', many pilots feel the RJDC is a direct assault on the profession and our livlihood.... and allot of us are RJ pilots...

Your threat to go after anyone who ever said anything nice about Dan Ford, Ken Cooksey, or the other Plaintiffs is so rediculous that it hardly bears comment. Sue their mothers and me too for all I care. I will be pleased to accept service at my office, or at work, saving you the $90 on the Process Server. Talk about a frivolous action.

Ah... you ARE gaining an understanding of how we feel about the RJDC!!

And an Article VIII motion - you are not the first Cowboy to think of that. This rodeo has been going on for seven long years now. But who else do you propose to kick out? We have one EVP who sued ALPA on a DFR claim, another very close to home who brought a resolution to the floor critical of Delta's bargaining on phantom aircraft and a whole bunch of Delta pilots who sued ALPA and got a big settlement. As for Joe, he might not even mind getting booted.

Well then maybe the RJDC needs to quietly go about its efforts.... Did the other pilots above have a website? Did they get on FI to provide "updates". Did they have political operatives (you) that debated the issues?

As for minority rights and doing "God's work" I am no messiah. I'm not even Michael Boyd. But the majority killed Jesus, in case you forgot.

Well, just cause I suggested the RJDC thought it was doing gods work was no indication that I thought you were the messaih. That connection was made entirely on your part... but we now see how you think of yourself, Jesus... :laugh: (said in fun.........)


And then those that killed Jesus converted to his socio-political-spiritual methods! Maybe in a few years we'll realize the error of our ways and all become RJDC disciples.... (more sarcrasm....)



Dan Ford.... save us................................from ourselves!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

[/color]Again, I just don't understand why you would want to work with these evil DL pilots with all that vitrol you spew. Experience aside, and I know you possess it, I just don't know how you'd fit in here. I mean, who would you force all your blame on for all your issues?!
Rant over,
737

I don't think the bottom 800 or so pilots will ever be able to screw as bad as they have been screwed.

• DL Express pay
• Greenslipping by guys while we had furloughees
• PRP's (greenslipping)

These are just a few.....

I don't know. How do you fit in with your issues?

For one, this board is the place to discuss hot issues, work isn't.

Secondly, just because I write about current events does not mean that I support the agenda. Just like when you write about Delta's sponsorship of Gay Pride. You might write about it, but you are just writing about what is going on.

For RJDC Plaintiff's I can see how they would find employment at Delta a solution to their problem:

• Equal representation
• Their flying no longer considered a threat by their own union
• An escape from the fall out from ALPA's scope policies at small jet carriers
• An opportunity to financially recover from what ever harm has been the result of ALPA's policy

In addition, by taking the advice to apply and get hired they would have better career security, better quality of life, and the ability to make more money that they will at their regional carrier.

But, our union and our profession is still harmed by what is going on at the small jet carriers. Saying that Ugandan refugees woud have it better if they lived someplace else does not fix a civil war.

 

[N2264J]

What is the position of the RJDC being counter-sued? In theroy.....

Why don't you just say what you're thinking instead of making oblique threats?

The court has already decided this case is not frivolous when ALPA lost its first motion to dismiss in 2003. At that point, the court recommended the litigation be turned into a class action and the litigation is moving forward on the lynchpin issue, Duty of Fair Representation. As a practical matter, none of this bodes very well for a countersuit.

From what we've gathered in discovery and depositions so far, I personally think ALPA is going to have its hands full just defending itself and is in no position to countersue RJDC plaintiffs or supporters.

 

[N2264J]

Re:

Need I present more proof that the RJDC is just a MGMT tool to jack with ALPA? Divide and conquer....

When ex United MEC Chairman Roger Hall or Rick Dubinski sued ALPA, were they management tools? How about future Alaska MEC Chairman and ALPA EVP Cress Bernard or ex Emory MEC Chairman and ALPA EVP Tom Ratchford? How about the Delta pilots who sued ALPA in Miller vs ALPA, or US Airways pilots for justice, or the TWA pilots, or the Allegheny/Piedmont pilots? Management tools?

http://www.emerycrew.org/

http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com/

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/

http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/

 

[N2264J]

...maybe as a non ASA ALPA pilot I'll politik an ASA pilot clique to go to the next ASA LEC meeting with a C&BL Article VIII resolution to ban the leaders of the RJDC from ever being ALPA members again....

Rez: I'd join you in that fight! I'd also move to petition to have EVERY single NAMED supporter of the rjdc countersued and expelled from ALPA to recover funds that were exhausted from this frivilous suit that has wasted time and money all for dan and the rest of his jerkoff associates!

You guys have been threatening this stuff for seven years. Was Article 8 levied on Hall, Dubinski, Ratchford, the Miller vs ALPA Delta pilots, TWA pilots, Emory pilots, Allegheny & Piedmont pilots, US Airways pilots?

I'm hearing through the grape vine that Delta pilots are exploring a lawsuit against ALPA because they think the bankruptcy claim wasn't dispersed fairly. Yes?

Other than the endless chest thumping, what's your point?

 

[N2264J]

And an Article VIII motion - you are not the first Cowboy to think of that...But who else do you propose to kick out?

Well then maybe the RJDC needs to quietly go about its efforts.... Did the other pilots above have a website? Did they get on FI to provide "updates". Did they have political operatives (you) that debated the issues?

So what!

There are 10 DCI carriers now including Pinnacle. How does that square with ALPA's Alter Ego policy? Shall I quote the Admin. manual policy for you? How does that square with ALPA's Brand Scope scam? The direction of our union and their obvious dereliction of duty is at least as important to us as a thread about some guy who crapped his pants.

Maybe you need to go quietly about your efforts and stop demonstrating your ignorance in public. You've made yourself clear a thousand times - you don't like the lawsuit but it's apparent from your lack of a cogent argument that you've never made even a cursory attempt to educate yourself on it.

 

[PCL_128]

How does that square with ALPA's Alter Ego policy? Shall I quote the Admin. manual policy for you?

No, you better stick to quoting things that you actually understand. (Hint: that's not much)

Maybe you need to go quietly about your efforts and stop demonstrating your ignorance in public. You've made yourself clear a thousand times - you don't like the lawsuit but it's apparent from your lack of a cogent argument that you've never made even a cursory attempt to educate yourself on it.

I'd wager that Rez and I are far more educated on the subject than you, Joey, or any of the other RJDC cultists. You guys think you understand the lawsuit, but you seem to lack even a basic understanding of what it requests in relief, and what the unintended (and intended) consequences would be.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So what!

There are 10 DCI carriers now including Pinnacle. How does that square with ALPA's Alter Ego policy? Shall I quote the Admin. manual policy for you? How does that square with ALPA's Brand Scope scam? The direction of our union and their obvious dereliction of duty is at least as important to us as a thread about some guy who crapped his pants.

Maybe you need to go quietly about your efforts and stop demonstrating your ignorance in public. You've made yourself clear a thousand times - you don't like the lawsuit but it's apparent from your lack of a cogent argument that you've never made even a cursory attempt to educate yourself on it.

Riddle me this....

If the RJDC could fix this problem with ALPA National cooperation, what changes would be made and discuss and demonstrate that it would be fair for all. Or even how it would effect all....

OR

Discuss what the end game is with the lawsuit. What will come out of it and how will it effect DAL pilots and DCI pilots.

Any RJDC advocate can reply.. Joe Merchant.. Fins, N2264, Braveheart....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://www.emerycrew.org/

http://www.emerycrew.org/http://www.emerycrew.org/

http://www.emerycrew.org/

They are also sueing Emery and the holding company.

http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com/

http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com/http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com/

http://www.twapilots-vs-alpa.com/

They are also sueing the APA and AMR.

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/

They are really pissed off... lots of emotion...

http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/

http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/

http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/

$300,000 for each pilot. about 40 pilots listed and 350 pilots on the seniority list. I guess if they suck ALPA dry and BK the organization that would be ok for the other 60,000 pilots.


I see allot of guys in these lawsuits who's career expectations are not being met. The question is.... are those expectations realistic and is ALPA to blame? BTW I've been displaced and furloughed......twice...

Could ALPA have done something different? I don't know... Is ALPA an idealistic blanket of innocence that keeps pilots shielded from the realities of market forces..... I guess its supposed to be...

 

[N2264J]

Riddle me this....

If the RJDC could fix this problem with ALPA National cooperation, what changes would be made and discuss and demonstrate that it would be fair
for all. Or even how it would effect all....

OR

Discuss what the end game is with the lawsuit. What will come out of it and how will it effect DAL pilots and DCI pilots.

If you have to ask, it's obvious you haven't been paying attention for the last seven years.

Or is the fact that Pinnacle was awarded 14
CL-65-900s for Delta Connection flying responsible for your renewed curiosity?

Is the burden and guilt of being an alter ego starting to wear on ya? Alter ego - an instrument of Lorenzo or as the Delta pilots say, a competitive strategy for keeping costs down by the company? ie ALPA = management lapdog.

When ALPA authorizes you to enter into settlement discussions with plaintiffs on Flightinfo.com, let us know.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Rez,

1. That fact that you and others are so wound up about RJDC, tells me that it is having an effect in Herndon...... you wouldn't be wasting your time if the lawsuit wasn't going anywhere.....

2. If you want to pursue Article VIII charges against me, I would welcome the challenge.... I doubt you will actually follow thru..... but bring it on.....

3. Was former ALPA EVP Cress Bernard out of line by suing ALPA for DFR? If so, how did he become an ALPA EVP AFTER suing ALPA?

4. Are you aware that members of the USAir MEC retained Haber?

 

[PCL_128]

1. That fact that you and others are so wound up about RJDC, tells me that it is having an effect in Herndon.

Joe, in all honesty, I've never heard anyone in Herndon ever mention the RJDC at all. The only time I heard the Ford/Cooksey litigations mentioned was when I specifically asked the attorneys what the status of the case was. Hate to break it to you, but no one is really that preoccupied with your silly little organization.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you have to ask, it's obvious you haven't been paying attention for the last seven years.

Actually, I haven't cared for the last 7 years. I've taken notice of the RJDC for the last 2-3 years and waited till I formed an opinion...

Or is the fact that Pinnacle was awarded 14
CL-65-900s for Delta Connection flying responsible for your renewed curiosity?

My concern is the effect of the RJDC on all ALPA pilots. See, some of us are concerned with the profession as a whole. While realizing that objectivity might cause negative personal costs, the long term collective goal is more important...

Is the burden and guilt of being an alter ego starting to wear on ya? Alter ego - an instrument of Lorenzo or as the Delta pilots say, a competitive strategy for keeping costs down by the company? ie ALPA = management lapdog.

I disagree with your perception...

When ALPA authorizes you to enter into settlement discussions with plaintiffs on Flightinfo.com, let us know.

Then keep your RJDC drivel of FI and I won't respond to it. If you check I've never started a post on the RJDC...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1. That fact that you and others are so wound up about RJDC, tells me that it is having an effect in Herndon...... you wouldn't be wasting your time if the lawsuit wasn't going anywhere.....

As I told your FAA registration friend.... As long as you guys keep feeling the deisre to politicize the RJDC by coming on FI and trying to peddle your poison to the new kids, I am going to call you out.

One of ALPA's problems is the way they define being an Air Line Pilot. They create high-mx school gilrs like you who expect to be given everything all for a cheap and lousy 1.95%. Before you know it you got professional airline pilots living on union welfare. There is little difference between you and a two dollah crack ho' on gov't welfare who sues the state cause they got high colresteral from buying steaks on food stamps....

2. If you want to pursue Article VIII charges against me, I would welcome the challenge.... I doubt you will actually follow thru..... but bring it on.....

Joe, my son, the intent to bring up article VIII was to show the level of disdain for your actions. And what the equivilant of your actions against you would be...

3. Was former ALPA EVP Cress Bernard out of line by suing ALPA for DFR? If so, how did he become an ALPA EVP AFTER suing ALPA?

It's called a democracy Joe.... maybe you should try respecting it...

4. Are you aware that members of the USAir MEC retained Haber?

No, I am not privy nor seeking that information....


I don't get it.... you lawsiut guys think ALPA plans to screw you....

I don't think they intended to screw the TWA guys or the Emery guys... sure there are others that thing ALPA did say screw 'em... but we all have our opinons