Republics E-170s replacing Midwests flying! WTF

[superfreight208]

"Scheduled service for the EMB-170s, which are replacing all but nine of Midwest’s Boeing-717s and are being operated by Republic Airways pilots"

Whats the deal with this! Why doesn't ALPA do more than just picket in front of MKE?

 

[PropPiedmont]

"Scheduled service for the EMB-170s, which are replacing all but nine of Midwest’s Boeing-717s and are being operated by Republic Airways pilots"

Whats the deal with this! Why doesn't ALPA do more than just picket in front of MKE?

Where have you been the last two weeks?

 

[millhouse21]

I am in MKE on an overnight right now and there were a bunch of E-170s mixed in the with the Midwest birds. That happened fast!!

 

[LearLove]

because alpa and prater and DW before him are nothing more than an f'in joke. not to mention we as professional pilots are our own worst enemies. all of us are a bunch of puss a$$ POS's and we have no one to blame but ourselves, from the most senior widebody guy at ual or fdx to the newhire FO at lakes.

this sh1t is never gonna end. one day it was comair and mesa getting all the flying (early 90's) then coex and eagle (late 90's) now in the past few years its been rep/chq/sa and others. who will be next?

 

[rightseatjocky]

Flying those 170's is like flying struck work....
Republic scumbags need to be taken out and horse Slapped!!!
:smash:

I know, why don't you fly them for 50 seat rates too!!!

 

[lowlycfi]

...we as professional pilots are our own worst enemies.

Someone gets it.

 

[Scapegoat]

Flying those 170's is like flying struck work....

If it was struck work then MidEx pilots should be on strike! Which I think they should be, (legal or not). I am surprised that they are taking this as lightly as they are.... Just my opinion.
I wish em the best and think they should fight TH till the end.......Which I think is near!

 

[rightseatjocky]

I said it was LIKE STRUCK WORK.. I know what the difference is but thank you for trying to explaine it..
Yes, Midex pilots need a sick out legal or not..

 

[sweptback]

Does Midwest have scope? Is this in fact a contractual violation? I know nothing about the Midwest contract...

 

[Cpt Oveur]

It's not struck work for RAH pilots. Short of every pilot on that seniority list standing up and saying "no, we're not going to do this flying," they are powerless to stop it. Would you give up your job so that another pilot would keep his/hers?

 

[MCDU]

Republic did the same at USAIR. We were furloughing and parking airplanes, and they were replacing our flying. Republic was upgrading F/O's at a record pace, while USAIR pilots with 1989 hire dates were getting furloughed. This all again under the umbrella of ALPA leadership. Republic replacement flying for Midwest is nothing new and ALPA can not do a damm thing. Pilots hitting the street while other pilots fill their jobs. MMM?

Midwest pilots, welcome to the club of another pilot group getting shafted.


M

 

[Cpt Oveur]

RAH is not a member of ALPA. You can't reasonably add this to the list of things you hate about ALPA.

 

[MCDU]

No, but Midwest is. I know Teamsters IBT 747 and they could give a rats if they are stealing jobs.

M

 

[rightseatjocky]

OMG, I say it's like struck work because it's the same concept..
You have a $hit company, mgmt, pilots, flying for a company that is putting pilots on the street. My best friend flies for Midwest and he is on the street because of this.
I don't care what you call it.. It's still a crappy situation of people being put on the street. Rah has no business doing this to Usair and Midwest. Rah is just a pile of scumbags... Don't like what I have to say.. too damn bad!!!

 

[Cpt Oveur]

RIght now the line between self preservation and stealing someone else's job is a little blurred. Look at all the alpa carriers that have fought for flying from other alpa carriers. Look at how ASA, comair, freedom, and pinnacle have all tripped over eachother for flying for Delta. Look at how TSA was fighting for flying from AE in MIA. You've read how everyone is waiting to steal it out from under Mesa as soon as they can. RAH is doing exactly what everyone else here is doing. Show me a letter from an MEC office saying they do no support going for flying from one company because it will take away jobs at our brothers company and I'll buy your argument. It's just how it is, it's not something I'd take pride in.

 

[sweptback]

Republic did the same at USAIR. We were furloughing and parking airplanes, and they were replacing our flying. Republic was upgrading F/O's at a record pace, while USAIR pilots with 1989 hire dates were getting furloughed. This all again under the umbrella of ALPA leadership. Republic replacement flying for Midwest is nothing new and ALPA can not do a damm thing. Pilots hitting the street while other pilots fill their jobs. MMM?

Midwest pilots, welcome to the club of another pilot group getting shafted.

And the mainline pilots who agreed to sacrifice scope in return for a huge payday are somehow without fault?

 

[rightseatjocky]

ASA has only flown for 1 company since it was formed. That is Delta.. I don't disagree with your thought Cpt on what you just wrote but on the other hand, you said something that should hit to heart.. You said " BROTHERS".. That should mean something if you ask me.
You asked the thread if I would give my job up for someone else. There are a lot of cercumstances that that question and it's a loaded question. I can answer it fairly or not.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Of course its a loaded question, look at the situation those pilots are in. They lost their Frontier flying, and now the only home they've found (so far) for their e-170s is flying for Midwest. I wouldn't expect them to do anything differently, look at the industry right now. The only companies I can think of that are hiring are Compass and Great Lakes, where the number and quantity of furloughs are far greater. If you were an RAH pilot who faced being out on the street or doing someone else's job because you're a more economical product, what are you going to do?

 

[rightseatjocky]

You're still talking about mgmt. I am not in the same situation as the majority of the regional pilots that have come out a fast track school or somewhere they had to borrow a ton of money to become a pilot.
Knowing my state of economics and knowing my educational background and knowing what I can go back into. YES!!! I would give my job up for my "Brother".
The day I started flying for ASA I had a ton of bills and I am fortunate to have what I have. During that time I have paid off every single bill I have, except my house which was bought last year.
Do I blame the pilots, Yes and No!!! Do I blame Alpa for letting this happen.. Damn right!!! I am Alpa and I see what they do every day.. whether it comes to Alpa playing Main line against Regionals or Playing Companies against each other.. ALPA needs to figure out what they want and stop just taking my money.
I think that all mgmt are thieves and they all need to be taken out and shot. Ceo's that take their golden parachute whether a company makes it or not. Everyone is to blame.. It's a matter of what you're willing to stand up for... Am I wrong?

 

[airjackson]

I know Teamsters IBT 747 and they could give a rats if they are stealing jobs.

M

Uh,...Yeah. Just like the teamsters cared when it was Trans States pilots' jobs being handed to Gojet when that scab company was formed.

F-ck the Teamsters.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Amen
Jackson!!!
:beer:

 

[SSDD]

Yeah. I think you are wrong in your assesment of your own situation. ASA is now flying routes that were once flown by Delta's DC9s and 737s.

DCI was adding 200s, 700s, and even some 900s while Delta pilots were on the street. Where was your outrage then? And if you weren't at ASA at the time, why would you come to work for a company that you hold is such low esteem?

Crossing an actual picket line? No, that's out of the question! But what is going on here has happened at every major.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Yes, it's even worse now. I was flying cargo when this all came about with scope and what they did with ASA. I came to ASA because it was the place to be at one time. Would I fly for Skywest because they are the number 1 regional out there. No way in hell. They fire on average 2-3 pilots a month and there is no one to back them.
I was asked one day jumpseating on a Skywest plane. What has the union done for you? I told them it's not what it did for me, it's what "What has it done for you" with an odd look I asked him..
" Would you have the pay or work rules that you have right now? Would you have the quality of life as captain that you have now"? Finally he got what I was talking about.
I have been with ASA 6 years next month and am I happy about flying for Delta routes. NOT AT ALL. Were they furloughed at the time... NO they weren't, not 6 years ago they weren't. Are they furloughed now, NO. Are they hiring? Yes and will be hiring more than 200 in the coming months as they are doing so much South America flying now.
So now what?
SSDD you asked about the Delta flying. ASA and Skywest were the only 2 Regionals that hired furloughed Delta guys when it comes to DCI carriers.
I think you should be talking about Comair when it comes to that and to think that they wouldn't hire a "Brother" that is in need. Hence, to why ASA and Skywest guys get priority hiring at Delta and Delta pilots hate Comair.
:nuts:

 

[Jim]

Midwest pilots, welcome to the club of another pilot group getting shafted.

M

Sounds like Midwest pilots have a lot in common with the AWA pilots.....

 

[Speedtape]

Yeah. I think you are wrong in your assesment of your own situation. ASA is now flying routes that were once flown by Delta's DC9s and 737s.
Yes, and many of those routes were previously flown by Eastern Airlines. Who owns the routes?

DCI was adding 200s, 700s, and even some 900s while Delta pilots were on the street. Where was your outrage then? And if you weren't at ASA at the time, why would you come to work for a company that you hold is such low esteem?

Because, he needed a job! ASA flew the routes because DALPA's scope clause specifically permitted ASA to do so. DALPA did not want to fly rj's, but they knew that their company needed the feed to survive.

Crossing an actual picket line? No, that's out of the question! But what is going on here has happened at every major.

And, unfortunately, it will keep happening!

 

[Speedtape]

Sounds like Midwest pilots have a lot in common with the AWA pilots.....

It appears that longterm, either Delta will make Midwest another regional to conform with scope so they don't have to merge them, or Midwest will be terminated! There are behind the scenes things happening here that most are not aware.

 

[SSDD]

RSJ,

I don't want to confuse the issue with a union vs non-union arguement. If I'm not mistaken, your original position was that RAH guys are flying struck routes, and that you would give up your job before ever doing that.

My point is that ASA, and DCI, did the same to Delta pilots, and you didn't give up your job.

I may be a little off in the timeline, but if I remember correctly, it has not been 6 years since TBKane was recalled. So DL has had people on the street since you've been at ASA.

You know the saying about people in glass houses, and all....

 

[Minimaniac]

Quick FACTS:

- Midwest ALPA has filed an appropriate motion in regards to the RAH deal. They are awaiting a hearing date.

- RAH Teamsters have filed an appropriate motion in regards to the Midwest deal. This motion is to heard expeditiously per the CBA. It was filed in late September, and should be initially heard in late October. Sorry if that is after October 1st, but nothing legal is fast.

- No RAH pilots have been recalled or will be recalled because of the Midwest deal.

- RAH pilots did not choose to save their jobs by taking this deal. We were never informed of this deal, which happens to be one of the many CBA violations we are grieving.

- Since RAH pilots had no forewarning and no vote as to whether we wanted to pursue the Midwest flying, you absolutely cannot argue that we are choosing job preservation while kicking Midwest pilots to the street.

- The grievances filed by Teamsters are filed on behalf of all RAH pilots, and cover all RAH pilots regardless of whether or not they approve of the Midwest deal.

- RAH pilots will continue to fly the Midwest routes until a court rules that the Midwest contract is in violation of our CBA, or until a court rules in favor of Midwest ALPA. Either victory is a victory for both parties.

- Everyone on this site will have to just chill the flip out and wait for the legal issues to be handled by the court.

 

[rightseatjocky]

RSJ,

I don't want to confuse the issue with a union vs non-union arguement. If I'm not mistaken, your original position was that RAH guys are flying struck routes, and that you would give up your job before ever doing that.

My point is that ASA, and DCI, did the same to Delta pilots, and you didn't give up your job.

I may be a little off in the timeline, but if I remember correctly, it has not been 6 years since TBKane was recalled. So DL has had people on the street since you've been at ASA.

You know the saying about people in glass houses, and all....

WRONG!!!
My original statement is.. IT'S LIKE FLYING STRUCK ROUTES.. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!!!
Omg, forget it, obviously that people don't get it. It's supposed to mean as I explained earlier that they are flying routes and have parked planes that Midwest pilots should be flying. My statemtent was was to mean that it's like they are flying struck routes..
As for people in glass houses. I have no clue if I have ever flown a route that Delta owned, but again read what I said earlier about Skywest and ASA hiring furloughed Delta guys as we were the only 2 that did it.
I live in Colorado Springs and have to jump seat on a Skywest 90 seater. There used to be 2 737-800's on that route. Now there is a Skywest 90 and a 737-800. This month it's down to 1 flight a day.. Whose fault is that? Skywest, no!!! It is the number crunchers in Delta Go. Now, do I like the 90 on this route.. no way. I want those 800's back on the route. We are always fighting for a seat and Delta has lost all its' international passengers out of there because the flight leaves too late for Atlanta connection. Again, Delta's doing.
Back to the original statement. I think it's totaly wrong for RAH to be taking this flying from a Midwest pilot. What is a contract really.. Just a piece of paper to be thrown in the trash when mgmt feels like it, if you ask me....

 

[Propsync]

Back to the original statement. I think it's totaly wrong for RAH to be taking this flying from a Midwest pilot. What is a contract really.. Just a piece of paper to be thrown in the trash when mgmt feels like it, if you ask me....

One more time for those in the back.

This whole thing involves TPG keeping Midwest in business long enough for DL and NW to merge. Since more money was needed, NW didn't put in their part and Republic did. The favor from TPG comes as RAH gets to fly aircraft it didn't have a home for. Boeing helped by taking back 16 717's. This is actually a better situation. Without that money, Midwest would have been done, RAH would furlough, and DL would lose the gates and slots to someone else. Believe me, once this merger is approved, TPG will fire sale the gates and slots to Delta. Next will be TPG and RAH pulling whatever cash is left, send Midwest to ch.7 and call it a day.

The unions (both) cannot stop this from happening. Midwest was smart and put connect on the side of the airplanes. So really, they aren't flying Midwest routes. If it was, why didn't the Midwest mec file a grievance against Skyway (ALPA) or Skywest? Each airline did the same thing to Midwest. The whole transfer of a/c will never happen, so RAH pilots should have nothing to worry about there, either. It will turn MKE into a 70-90 seat RJ base, which isn't much different than it is now with 88/99 seat 717's.