Republics E-170s replacing Midwests flying! WTF

[rightseatjocky]

Amen
Jackson!!!
:beer:

 

[SSDD]

Yeah. I think you are wrong in your assesment of your own situation. ASA is now flying routes that were once flown by Delta's DC9s and 737s.

DCI was adding 200s, 700s, and even some 900s while Delta pilots were on the street. Where was your outrage then? And if you weren't at ASA at the time, why would you come to work for a company that you hold is such low esteem?

Crossing an actual picket line? No, that's out of the question! But what is going on here has happened at every major.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Yes, it's even worse now. I was flying cargo when this all came about with scope and what they did with ASA. I came to ASA because it was the place to be at one time. Would I fly for Skywest because they are the number 1 regional out there. No way in hell. They fire on average 2-3 pilots a month and there is no one to back them.
I was asked one day jumpseating on a Skywest plane. What has the union done for you? I told them it's not what it did for me, it's what "What has it done for you" with an odd look I asked him..
" Would you have the pay or work rules that you have right now? Would you have the quality of life as captain that you have now"? Finally he got what I was talking about.
I have been with ASA 6 years next month and am I happy about flying for Delta routes. NOT AT ALL. Were they furloughed at the time... NO they weren't, not 6 years ago they weren't. Are they furloughed now, NO. Are they hiring? Yes and will be hiring more than 200 in the coming months as they are doing so much South America flying now.
So now what?
SSDD you asked about the Delta flying. ASA and Skywest were the only 2 Regionals that hired furloughed Delta guys when it comes to DCI carriers.
I think you should be talking about Comair when it comes to that and to think that they wouldn't hire a "Brother" that is in need. Hence, to why ASA and Skywest guys get priority hiring at Delta and Delta pilots hate Comair.
:nuts:

 

[Jim]

Midwest pilots, welcome to the club of another pilot group getting shafted.

M

Sounds like Midwest pilots have a lot in common with the AWA pilots.....

 

[Speedtape]

Yeah. I think you are wrong in your assesment of your own situation. ASA is now flying routes that were once flown by Delta's DC9s and 737s.
Yes, and many of those routes were previously flown by Eastern Airlines. Who owns the routes?

DCI was adding 200s, 700s, and even some 900s while Delta pilots were on the street. Where was your outrage then? And if you weren't at ASA at the time, why would you come to work for a company that you hold is such low esteem?

Because, he needed a job! ASA flew the routes because DALPA's scope clause specifically permitted ASA to do so. DALPA did not want to fly rj's, but they knew that their company needed the feed to survive.

Crossing an actual picket line? No, that's out of the question! But what is going on here has happened at every major.

And, unfortunately, it will keep happening!

 

[Speedtape]

Sounds like Midwest pilots have a lot in common with the AWA pilots.....

It appears that longterm, either Delta will make Midwest another regional to conform with scope so they don't have to merge them, or Midwest will be terminated! There are behind the scenes things happening here that most are not aware.

 

[SSDD]

RSJ,

I don't want to confuse the issue with a union vs non-union arguement. If I'm not mistaken, your original position was that RAH guys are flying struck routes, and that you would give up your job before ever doing that.

My point is that ASA, and DCI, did the same to Delta pilots, and you didn't give up your job.

I may be a little off in the timeline, but if I remember correctly, it has not been 6 years since TBKane was recalled. So DL has had people on the street since you've been at ASA.

You know the saying about people in glass houses, and all....

 

[Minimaniac]

Quick FACTS:

- Midwest ALPA has filed an appropriate motion in regards to the RAH deal. They are awaiting a hearing date.

- RAH Teamsters have filed an appropriate motion in regards to the Midwest deal. This motion is to heard expeditiously per the CBA. It was filed in late September, and should be initially heard in late October. Sorry if that is after October 1st, but nothing legal is fast.

- No RAH pilots have been recalled or will be recalled because of the Midwest deal.

- RAH pilots did not choose to save their jobs by taking this deal. We were never informed of this deal, which happens to be one of the many CBA violations we are grieving.

- Since RAH pilots had no forewarning and no vote as to whether we wanted to pursue the Midwest flying, you absolutely cannot argue that we are choosing job preservation while kicking Midwest pilots to the street.

- The grievances filed by Teamsters are filed on behalf of all RAH pilots, and cover all RAH pilots regardless of whether or not they approve of the Midwest deal.

- RAH pilots will continue to fly the Midwest routes until a court rules that the Midwest contract is in violation of our CBA, or until a court rules in favor of Midwest ALPA. Either victory is a victory for both parties.

- Everyone on this site will have to just chill the flip out and wait for the legal issues to be handled by the court.

 

[rightseatjocky]

RSJ,

I don't want to confuse the issue with a union vs non-union arguement. If I'm not mistaken, your original position was that RAH guys are flying struck routes, and that you would give up your job before ever doing that.

My point is that ASA, and DCI, did the same to Delta pilots, and you didn't give up your job.

I may be a little off in the timeline, but if I remember correctly, it has not been 6 years since TBKane was recalled. So DL has had people on the street since you've been at ASA.

You know the saying about people in glass houses, and all....

WRONG!!!
My original statement is.. IT'S LIKE FLYING STRUCK ROUTES.. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!!!
Omg, forget it, obviously that people don't get it. It's supposed to mean as I explained earlier that they are flying routes and have parked planes that Midwest pilots should be flying. My statemtent was was to mean that it's like they are flying struck routes..
As for people in glass houses. I have no clue if I have ever flown a route that Delta owned, but again read what I said earlier about Skywest and ASA hiring furloughed Delta guys as we were the only 2 that did it.
I live in Colorado Springs and have to jump seat on a Skywest 90 seater. There used to be 2 737-800's on that route. Now there is a Skywest 90 and a 737-800. This month it's down to 1 flight a day.. Whose fault is that? Skywest, no!!! It is the number crunchers in Delta Go. Now, do I like the 90 on this route.. no way. I want those 800's back on the route. We are always fighting for a seat and Delta has lost all its' international passengers out of there because the flight leaves too late for Atlanta connection. Again, Delta's doing.
Back to the original statement. I think it's totaly wrong for RAH to be taking this flying from a Midwest pilot. What is a contract really.. Just a piece of paper to be thrown in the trash when mgmt feels like it, if you ask me....

 

[Propsync]

Back to the original statement. I think it's totaly wrong for RAH to be taking this flying from a Midwest pilot. What is a contract really.. Just a piece of paper to be thrown in the trash when mgmt feels like it, if you ask me....

One more time for those in the back.

This whole thing involves TPG keeping Midwest in business long enough for DL and NW to merge. Since more money was needed, NW didn't put in their part and Republic did. The favor from TPG comes as RAH gets to fly aircraft it didn't have a home for. Boeing helped by taking back 16 717's. This is actually a better situation. Without that money, Midwest would have been done, RAH would furlough, and DL would lose the gates and slots to someone else. Believe me, once this merger is approved, TPG will fire sale the gates and slots to Delta. Next will be TPG and RAH pulling whatever cash is left, send Midwest to ch.7 and call it a day.

The unions (both) cannot stop this from happening. Midwest was smart and put connect on the side of the airplanes. So really, they aren't flying Midwest routes. If it was, why didn't the Midwest mec file a grievance against Skyway (ALPA) or Skywest? Each airline did the same thing to Midwest. The whole transfer of a/c will never happen, so RAH pilots should have nothing to worry about there, either. It will turn MKE into a 70-90 seat RJ base, which isn't much different than it is now with 88/99 seat 717's.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Prop,
I think you might be right with the merger, but I never saw one 717 on a route from Cos to Mci.

 

[Propsync]

Yeah, but Skyway 'took' BDL, RDU, ATW and MSN after 9-11. Skywest 'took' all of Skyway's flying and some Midwest.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

One thing you are all forgetting. Republic saved Midwest pilots from not having an airline to work for. Keeping some at work is better than none at all. If RAH had not thrown money their way there would be no Midwest pilots versus a portion and that portion will be recalled as soon as the 170's get put on their cert. It is a sore subject, yes, but this works out in the best case scenario for both airlines. Business. If we go by your arguments, then Midwest doors would be closed for good. You knuckleheads are in such a hurry to call others scabs (and not even use the term correctly) and YOU are part of the problem just as anyone is. If you are flying a regional plane, YOU, are part of the problem.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Roger, I am sure that you might be right in some of aspect of midwest.
I am sure that you started out either in the military or a regional also and it's just a stepping stone. Honestly, If I could fly for anyone, I want to fly for Alaska. They mind their own business on the west, don't bother anyone and I would love to fly for them.
I hate the fact of Delta talking trash about Comair and Comair hating everyone and their mother.
I do know the difference between a struck route and what a scab is if you were referencing that.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Republic did the same at USAIR. We were furloughing and parking airplanes, and they were replacing our flying. Republic was upgrading F/O's at a record pace, while USAIR pilots with 1989 hire dates were getting furloughed. This all again under the umbrella of ALPA leadership. Republic replacement flying for Midwest is nothing new and ALPA can not do a damm thing. Pilots hitting the street while other pilots fill their jobs. MMM?

Midwest pilots, welcome to the club of another pilot group getting shafted.


M

REALLY? Is this the marty that claims that he doesn't work for US Air?
I mean you wrote it right here:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465

Or the Marty that works for UAL?
You also worte that right here:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

Shouldn't you be our looking for your next PFT job?

MCDU = 1 airline strike away from his next job!

This ****************************** bag has proven he can't be taken seriously! Its obviously more flaim bait. Whats the matter marty, slow night at the mall?

 

[ex j-41]

Ya picketing....ya that works....

How about breaking some friggin legs?
Lets get back to basics.

 

[superfreight208]

One thing you are all forgetting. Republic saved Midwest pilots from not having an airline to work for. Keeping some at work is better than none at all. If RAH had not thrown money their way there would be no Midwest pilots versus a portion and that portion will be recalled as soon as the 170's get put on their cert. It is a sore subject, yes, but this works out in the best case scenario for both airlines. Business. If we go by your arguments, then Midwest doors would be closed for good. You knuckleheads are in such a hurry to call others scabs (and not even use the term correctly) and YOU are part of the problem just as anyone is. If you are flying a regional plane, YOU, are part of the problem.

Sounds like you work at Republic

 

[CX880]

Uh,...Yeah. Just like the teamsters cared when it was Trans States pilots' jobs being handed to Gojet when that scab company was formed.

F-ck the Teamsters.

Think before you use the S word, especially when you have no idea what your talking about. No one is flying struck work, we're not putting mainline pilots on the street and we certainly aren't taking TSA jobs since they can't fly CRj7S in the first place because they DIDN'T WANT TO.

 

[ex j-41]

Think before you use the S word, especially when you have no idea what your talking about. No one is flying struck work, we're not putting mainline pilots on the street and we certainly aren't taking TSA jobs since they can't fly CRj7S in the first place because they DIDN'T WANT TO.

Well you need a history lesson.
Go Jets was formed because TSA could not have 70 seaters on property because of the agreement with American.
TSA Management wanted to staff the other airline with TSA pilots but only if they would accept a pay rate of Mesa -2%. Don't think that was going to happen. So TSA management decided to staff the airline with pilots that were willing to resign their seniority at TSA and fly at Go Jets.
New hires came off the street.
TSA parked the J-41's and furloughed.

The problem people have with Go Jets is that the company should have used TSA Pilots because it was an alter ego airline. Same management, training dept etc... As far as i am concerned it was the same company.

So if there were people on furlough at TSA and other people taking jobs at Go Jets, i would consider them scabs. The company was too cheap to pay the pilots a fair and reasonable rate.

 

[deadstick]

Yeah, but Skyway 'took' BDL, RDU, ATW and MSN after 9-11. Skywest 'took' all of Skyway's flying and some Midwest.

I thought they moved the MidEx planes to other routes. Did they park them?

One thing you are all forgetting. Republic saved Midwest pilots from not having an airline to work for. Keeping some at work is better than none at all. If RAH had not thrown money their way there would be no Midwest pilots versus a portion and that portion will be recalled as soon as the 170's get put on their cert. It is a sore subject, yes, but this works out in the best case scenario for both airlines. Business. If we go by your arguments, then Midwest doors would be closed for good. You knuckleheads are in such a hurry to call others scabs (and not even use the term correctly) and YOU are part of the problem just as anyone is. If you are flying a regional plane, YOU, are part of the problem.

Not necessarily. RAH enabled TPG/TH to do this deal and not look for another option. Midwest would have survived until the DAL/NWA deal called for its liquidation. This just got somebody else (RAH and NOT TPG) to pony-up the cash. Don't fool yourself. RAH is not the savior of Mikwaukee "hometown" airline. There is no plan to have any operation that vaguely resembles the Midwest brand after that deal closes. This is just a continuaton of the NWA (and now DAL) "sock-block" to keep competition out of the midwest. If they could pull the it off, they would just store Boeing's 717s at all the MKE D-gates and only fly one to keep the ticket alive. The good people of Milwaukee should be getting use to TH's bs cons by now.

The more I look at this deal, I feel that the Midwest ticket will soon be the 4th in the RAH collection. The cash was publicized as a loan, but it is a deposit.

I think this is a better way of wording your last sentence: " If you are flying a regional plane on a non-regional route, YOU are part of the problem." Long live the 1900!