Republic Airways to Acquire 10 Embraer 190AR Aircraft from US Airways

[Beetle007]

RAH pilots, it's time to do the right thing and insist on the integration of Midwest pilots NOW!

Read the below quote from Republic:

The Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions’s lay out the description for an Integration process between all affected parties in an airline merger, or in this case acquisition. There have been many questions as to where we are in the process, and we hope to address most of these.

First and foremost, all affected parties must agree to begin the Integration process. Therefore we are unable to begin negotiations until all parties agree to begin the process. The Allegheny-Mohawk LPP’s contain specific language in this regard. One party may not be denied or left out of the process. We know that in the last Midwest ALPA update the Midwest Merger Committee asserts that we are unduly withholding progress in the Integration process. We have, in fact, rejected Midwest’s request for an arbitrator because all of the affected parties are not yet involved. This is because Midwest Pilots’ have yet to file for Arbitration with Frontier, Lynx, and Mokulele. All parties must come to agreement on the neutral selection of an arbitrator and process. One party cannot force arbitration upon another. This endeavor must be completed by all affected parties.

 

[Popeye0537]

No one is advocating denying a jumpseat this or next month. This would be more of a year long process in which all pilots help give RAH pilots the leverage that they need to get to a real wage for the 190 at least.

Most had hoped that the 190 would maintain a major status with rates on par with Jetblue or at least compass, but alas the plane is leaking down into the regional payscales. Therefore, it's time to make sure the payscales support having the 190 at mainline.

It's time for an industry wide "line in the sand" where the unions work together to prevent another plane lost to the pay for departure crowd.

I'm talking about helping you achieve a good contract, so I do believe you need to relax.

Did I just hear you say "Compass?" I didn't realize the 175 compass was flying were shortend 190's.

Where were you when B6 began flying these 190's for B scale wages? Did you draw a line in the sand and deny them the jumpseat? Nope. Were you outraged that a LCC was flying 190's for REGIONAL wages? Nope, and neither was anyone over at B6. The only reason that wages were brought up was the threat to unionize the pilot group.

RAH now with the aquisition of F9 and YX can fly whatever aircraft they deem necessary to secure a profit in said market from an Airbus down to a E135. You need to realize that RAH is no longer just a regoinal feed for the legacy carriers, they provide lift for their own "branded" airlines. Look at our Airbus rates, they are industry standard. The 190 has only been operating for 2 1/2 months here. We have rates for the 190's already, how long did it take WN to agree on a new TA? Yet you EXPECT us to have management agree overnight to a new pay rate??

 

[Beetle007]

Yet you EXPECT us to have management agree overnight to a new pay rate??

I think that is exactly what he is saying. He is saying that unions should collectively set minimum pay standards and deny jumpseat benefits to any airline that doesn't meet those standards.

Right or wrong....it would probably put pressure on management to quickly give pilots new pay rates. It would also put pressure on pilots to fight for those pay rates.

Pay is all about supply and demand. There is currently a large supply of pilots willing to commute for crappy pay (some even living with mom and dad). Without jumpseat benefits, there would be significantly less pilots willing to work for crappy pay. From an economics standpoint, this should result in higher payscales.

 

[Beetle007]

Negotiations often comes down to a game of "chicken" which has been significantly researched in game theory.

The classic example of "chicken" is two cars heading towards each other and the first person to swerve will be called a chicken. From a game theory standpoint, the best way to win a game of chicken is to disable your car steering so that you can only go straight. Then you must show your opponent that you have disabled your steering before the game begins.

National unions creating minimum pay standards would show management that the pilots are very unlikely to swerve first unless the minimum pay standards have been met. Unions should not facilitate managements ability to have pilots live in low cost areas and commute to expensive areas at substandard wages. I would not be upset if ALPA denied me jumpseat benefits because my pay was too low because I know it would have the long-term result of my pay being raised.

 

[Full of LUV]

That's what the unions are for....

Did I just hear you say "Compass?" I didn't realize the 175 compass was flying were shortend 190's.

Where were you when B6 began flying these 190's for B scale wages? Did you draw a line in the sand and deny them the jumpseat? Nope. Were you outraged that a LCC was flying 190's for REGIONAL wages? Nope, and neither was anyone over at B6. The only reason that wages were brought up was the threat to unionize the pilot group.

RAH now with the aquisition of F9 and YX can fly whatever aircraft they deem necessary to secure a profit in said market from an Airbus down to a E135. You need to realize that RAH is no longer just a regoinal feed for the legacy carriers, they provide lift for their own "branded" airlines. Look at our Airbus rates, they are industry standard. The 190 has only been operating for 2 1/2 months here. We have rates for the 190's already, how long did it take WN to agree on a new TA? Yet you EXPECT us to have management agree overnight to a new pay rate??

You know, I am not an expert on all of the regional soup airlines (as are most pilots). I don't know what many of the companies are flying or for who. I know this is on an RAH thread, but my idea would apply INDUSTRY WIDE, from VA through Skywest, even to prop carriers.
It is the national unions job to know what everyone flys and to ensure that their contracts meet the minimum standard to be "professionals".

For many years, the major unions have looked the other way as the bottom fourth, then third, now probably half of the so-called "professional" pilot ranks has been chipped away at, first voluntarily, then through BK, etc.
I can't fix what has happened in the past, what was condoned, etc. But if the National Unions don't start to determine what it is to be a pilot soon, it will be defined by the lowest bidder. Management's job is to seek the lowest cost.
Our leverage is that established carriers don't like being undercut any more than the pilot ranks do. Everytime their J/S, both in front and back of the jet, is used to transport low cost labor into a high cost market, both labor and management are losing.

You all are so concerned about next weeks commute, that you can't see a longer term strategy, so you call me names and insist that RAH is up to nothing but greatness for the pilot profession. If RAH wants to become the next great LCC, then I hope they do with INDUSTRY MINIMUM wages along the way and they win in the marketplace of service and value, not in the arena of "the cheapest labor".

 

[BoilerUP]

If RAH wants to become the next great LCC, then I hope they do with INDUSTRY MINIMUM wages along the way and they win in the marketplace of service and value, not in the arena of "the cheapest labor".

Like Southwest did in the 80s/90s and Jetblue did in the 90s/00s, right?

 

[Full of LUV]

No they didn't....

Like Southwest did in the 80s/90s and Jetblue did in the 90s/00s, right?

No they didn't, so and look what has happened, their (relative) pathetic pay is now considered above average I guess.

I take it you work for RAH, do you want your pay now to be seen as "high" to the next generation of pilots in 2020. Yeah, you'll be an Airbus captain earning $90K, but look there is a new company starting up in ORD paying $20K/$60K. They want to be the next LCC. Oh and BTW, RAH please give their crews unlimited travel benefits so that they can find people all over the country willing to work there. Actually, it won't be long and there will be pilots commuting from Mexico and Peru for example who think that $10K for an FO is OK, because they want to be the next LCC.

Let RAH win on service, safety, professionalism, marketing, being different, on time arrivals, sexy flight attendants, whatever. I propose let's stop subsidizing every new entrant, and even old entrants, with LABOR'S savings.

Boiler, you are right, the boomers have wronged you, SWA and JB undercut labor FOR YEARS, and got away with it. Majors went BK to adjust their cost structures to keep up, those who don't will die. Last thing pilots need is another round of labor savings.

Apparently, pilots were overpaid in the 80's, 90's, and 00's..... Look how far the salaries have fallen, and airlines still get 10K applications for every job. Now with the econoy down, it will take quite awhile for the free market to stabilize labor's oversupply. If the pilot profession doesn't look out for itself, no one else will. Labor rates have to be close now to sustainable, so for RAH to pay industry standard quickly should not spell its demise.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

After you graduate fifth grade, please go the following website:

http://www.jennaglatzer.com/pledge_to_stop_the_word_retard.htm

You just may learn something.

Trying to argue professional strategy on FI is like herding cats.

Whatever. Mind your own business.

 

[Airline Driver]

Actually y'all are the shortsighted ones who can't see past your next commute to see a long term strategy. I'm NOT advocating a one man jumpseat war or even a one company jumpseat war. I'm advocating a strategy where the unions actually work together to establish a MINIMUM payrate for every piece of mainline and/or regional equipment and then negotiate a way to enforce companies to rise to the professional level of pay and bennies or find a way for their workforce to show up for work.

If I were in charge, this would be a one year process, so all companies would know months in advance where they stood. If the lowball companies decided not to go along, it would be an industry standstill, but RAH would have more to lose by shutting down a majority of ops. I believe they would play ball.

All you guys are so focused on getting to work this weekend, you see a few posts about a way to gain some leverage in the industry and freak out. What ALPA would lose in this is much leverage for getting too far ahead of the minimum payrates, but then again, if a reasonable minimum was set and tied to inflation many more would benefit. Then as pilots we could get back to arguing whose is bigger and whose jets are shinier.

Much negotiation would have to be done to establish what a credible minimum is for each type and include workrules into the equation.

Hope your not too blinded by the shiny jet at the end of the jet bridge to see a possible industry strategy.
Luv

Well if your not advocating a Jump seat war then Why are you spewing lines about Denying RAH pilots from the Jump seat????:erm: I agree with you about "WE" meaning "ALL" industry pilots & Unions coming up with a plan to take back control of our industry to better our pay and working conditions. We are working off a CBA that was agreed on in 2003 and Expired in October of 2007!!

We are short sighted??? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmm No!! We have been blindsided by the turmoil in our company and Union over the past 4 months. You try keeping up with all this!! Our Union was Shut down, BANG, No notice, While we were in the middle of contract negotiations!!! 2 years worth of work GONE!! We now have new Management in the teamsters which does seem to be better than what it was so I guess It could not have happened at a better time. Not to mention, We have purchased two major airlines, with 5 seniority lists to merge into one, and a contract to negotiate for ALL of us!!

You can't snap your fingers and have all of this change in the blink of an eye! Things take Time. As someone here already said, it took Southwest and Jet Blue a while to get the conditions and pay they have!! You need to let the dust settle before you go charging into a situation for if you don't you might not make it out of the cloud!!

A history lesson for you!!! 1978, Deregulation. This is the foundation of our industry going down the drain. 911 did not help either. Mainline Pilots selling themselves out by not wanting to fly the "LITTLE SHINY JET" at the end of the jet bridge. Instead they sell out their Jr. pilots and open up Scope!! Hence Out come the regional airlines!! Meaning less opportunities for advance to a mainline carrier. RAH is just moving in a different direction. Our Pay and benefits will improve over time. Who is to say that our next contract won't be an industry leading contract!! I guess we'll all find out.

I am not Blinded by the Little shiny Jet at the end of the Jet bridge, I am just taking in all of what is happening at the rate it is happening at!! Strategy is great and I agree with you, but Things take time and you need to look at the whole book and Not just it's cover!!

P.S. I did not mean to call you an idiot!! My apologies!! I overreacted a little bit!! You have a right to your opinion, but leave the jump seat out!!

 

[Airline Driver]

I can start an engine that requires one button push, one clock hack, one lever movement and and eye on 4 gauges. It is a purely manual affair, and I have to do it twice to move my plane into the 3rd dimension.

I can also call someone out without such a feck-arsed delivery.

Bonus points: Spot the pun in the first paragraph, and put it on BB's fridge.

That was a bit harsh yes, Sorry I was working off of a few drinks!! :blush: However Denying the jump seat to any commuter is wrong PERIOD!! You may not commute, but I and 65-70% of the industry does!! Punishing The Pilots for the actions of your companies CEO is not the answerer!!