REJECTED by 83%!

[SoberIrishman]

Good. Hope you have your opportunity to leave Bend over. Then we may be able to see the end of that disgusting place and leave the remainder of us some room to maneuver.
Take care of those shiny new CR9's in the meantime please.

 

[damnflyboy]

You've done NOTHING but give Delta a reason to outsource its flying of 100 seat airplanes INSTEAD of hiring you and you're coworkers to do it while wearing a shiny new Delta ID badge.

Somebody gets it.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

I didn't know we had the power to "create jobs" that were lowering paying.

That's rather short sighted. Of course you do. We all do. UA/DL/AA will happily pay you and I $hit wages for the rest of our careers. All we have to do is vote them in.

If it is as simple as you seem to think just fight the good fight, stand up for the highest wage and see how it works out for you at the regional level.

We're in the process of doing that. This isn't just about wages, we are fighting to protect our retirement, reserve rules, insurance, scope, etc. We are fighting for our career choice, not a few shiny airplanes.

I predict that when Expressjet is put in the same position as Pinnacle they will preserve their jobs just like anyone would. They will then blame 9E which kind of sounds familiar to us blaming go-jets, etc.

We were told this vote was the only way to preserve our jobs. There would be no other offers. I'm not blaming anyone. You live with your contract, we'll live with ours.

You sent your message, now let us send ours.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

I'm not wasting too much time on an anonymous board discussing stuff with guys who just don't get it - but allow me to make a simple point as I'm interested in your response (not really).

All you did by "buying us some time" was create more substandard jobs at the regional level. Do you realize the implications of that? You're eliminating BETTER PAYING jobs at the next level which is extremely ironic considering you're reasoning (of ultimately going to DAL). You've done NOTHING but give Delta a reason to outsource its flying of 100 seat airplanes INSTEAD of hiring you and you're coworkers to do it while wearing a shiny new Delta ID badge.

Best of luck with your endeavors in this industry.

I may have misread this before, when I said, shove it.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

That's rather short sighted. Of course you do. We all do. UA/DL/AA will happily pay you and I $hit wages for the rest of our careers. All we have to do is vote them in.

We're in the process of doing that. This isn't just about wages, we are fighting to protect our retirement, reserve rules, insurance, scope, etc. We are fighting for our career choice, not a few shiny airplanes.

We were told this vote was the only way to preserve our jobs. There would be no other offers. I'm not blaming anyone. You live with your contract, we'll live with ours.

You sent your message, now let us send ours.

I did misread your position earlier. Excuse me

 

[JetLinkin Park]

I did misread your position earlier. Excuse me

I know you did. No worries. :beer:

 

[flighttime]

Nice job guys. That vote gives the rest of us who are in negotiations a little hope. Things are changing for the better!

 

[dingo222]

ExpressJet pilots:

Next time you find yourself in the hotel van with a crew from a regional that voted for concessions; look them in the eye and shake their hand then look at their flight attendant and give her a little wink cause she knows she is flying with a couple of pu&%#'s.

I dont have a dog in this fight but wouldnt that be xjet, mainline, bendover, mesa, eagle, netjets, and just about every professional pilot in the last 10 years? Yeah, it would. They have all taken concessions. Stick with the high fives friend.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

A lot of pilots are asking "what's next?" Well, you will still get paid for deadhead on the last leg of a trip when getting an alternate deadhead. You will still get 7 hours of pay for a 14 hour duty day (1 for 2 rig). You will not have to work 4 naps in a row. Reserve pilots will still get 2 GDO periods per month and retain all current book reserve rules. You will still get vacation low provisions in a vacation month. You still retain all current book. That's just the ASA side. All these aforementioned contract provisions would have been extinguished under the failed TA. As far as all the talk of downsizing and shutting down, that remains to be seen. It's unknown, but it was always unknown. The company never gave us any guarantees on anything, even if we agreed to their insulting TA. I think a great starting point for future negotiations is current book. That's what we have now. The entire XJT pilot group has truly shown a great interest in retaining work rules and compensation, as evidenced by the strength of this vote. Who can blame them. They are worth it, and I am proud to fly with them.

 

[Clutch]

Except they can't schedule you for 14 hours so that argument is moot. Also, the current book reserve rules absolutely suck so that's not really a dime either.

 

[ASAFOE120]

A lot of pilots are asking "what's next?" Well, you will still get paid for deadhead on the last leg of a trip when getting an alternate deadhead. You will still get 7 hours of pay for a 14 hour duty day (1 for 2 rig). You will not have to work 4 naps in a row. Reserve pilots will still get 2 GDO periods per month and retain all current book reserve rules. You will still get vacation low provisions in a vacation month. You still retain all current book. That's just the ASA side. All these aforementioned contract provisions would have been extinguished under the failed TA. As far as all the talk of downsizing and shutting down, that remains to be seen. It's unknown, but it was always unknown. The company never gave us any guarantees on anything, even if we agreed to their insulting TA. I think a great starting point for future negotiations is current book. That's what we have now. The entire XJT pilot group has truly shown a great interest in retaining work rules and compensation, as evidenced by the strength of this vote. Who can blame them. They are worth it, and I am proud to fly with them.

And you still can't get notified of an extension by the chef down at cousins BBQ

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Except they can't schedule you for 14 hours so that argument is moot. Also, the current book reserve rules absolutely suck so that's not really a dime either.

Here is current book:

Section 12 B(1)- Hours of Service

Report Time Maximum Scheduled Duty Time
0400-0559 12:30 hours
0600-1459 14:00 hours
1500-2159 13:30 hours
2200-0359 11:00 hours

Here is ASA MECs pilot guide to FAR 117, on page 11, table B:

Scheduled time of start:

07:00 to 11:59 = 14 hours of duty, Maximum flight duty period when flying 2 legs.

If we agreed to that miserably failed TA, the pilot would have received 4 hours of pay, instead of 7 under current contract.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

I honestly did not put smileys in there. Something is F'd up.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

Also, the current book reserve rules absolutely suck so that's not really a dime either.

You're simply feeding his point my friend. Our (LXJT) reserve rules don't suck. As he stated, let's retain our (best of XJT + best of ASA) work rules and compensation at current book values. It just so happens that the "book value" of the LXJT scheduling section is significantly better than that of the LASA section. So with regards to that section of the contract, we start from that set of rules.

No more looking at this divisively. Today's resolution shows that we are indeed unified. We can't be played against one another.

They tried that, and thanks to LASA, they've failed miserably.

EDITED TO ADD: forgive my weak example of the scheduling section above. I'm not familiar enough with the existing CRJ contract to say with conviction that ours in significantly better in all areas, just trying to reinforce the original point of MM.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

12. HOURS OF SERVICE
A. Scheduled Weekly, Monthly and Yearly Flight Time Limitations
The Company will not schedule, and no pilot may accept, an
assignment for flight time that will exceed the flight time limitations
of the FARs that are in effect on the date of signing.
B. Scheduled On-Duty Limitations
1. Regardless of the type of operation (e.g., FAR Part 121 or
91), except as provided in paragraph B.2., below, a pilot will
not be scheduled, rescheduled and/or extended, except for
deadhead at the end of a duty period, for more than the
maximum duty time shown below:
Report Time Maximum Scheduled Duty Time
0400-0559 12:30 hours
0600-1459 14: hours
1500-2159 13:30 hours
2200-0359 11:hours

 

[Mickey Mouse]

You're simply feeding his point my friend. Our (LXJT) reserve rules don't suck. As he stated, let's retain our (best of XJT + best of ASA) work rules and compensation at current book values. It just so happens that the "book value" of the LXJT scheduling section is significantly better than that of the LASA section. So with regards to that section of the contract, we start from that set of rules.

No more looking at this divisively. Today's resolution shows that we are indeed unified. We can't be played against one another.

They tried that, and thanks to LASA, they've massively failed.

EDITED TO ADD: forgive my weak example of the scheduling section above. I'm not familiar enough with the existing CRJ contract to say with conviction that ours in significantly better in all areas, just trying to reinforce the original point of MM.

You give a nice nod to the L/ASA pilot group. Let me give one to the L/XJT pilot group. You guys were strong from the start, and it provided an impetus for solidarity. Cheers

 

[PBRstreetgang]

We need to get the word out that PSA guys and Endeavor guys are pushovers. I'm sure the Major pilots don't want this type of guy on their lists.

But they are managements wet dream candidate....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Trust me, you don't want SKYW pilots anywhere near your voting, the Koolaid doesn't have to be very strong to get them to bite. Single carrier petition, look it up, not very difficult to find, want one, file the petition.
http://files.ali-aba.org/thumbs/datastorage/skoobesruoc/pdf/25JamesSingleCarrierCG055_thumb.pdf

Or:
14 NMB 218, 236 (1987).
The Board finds a single transportation system only
when there is substantial integration of operations, financial
control, and labor and personnel functions.
Burlington N.
Santa Fe Ry. Co.
, 32 NMB 163 (2005);
Huron and Eastern Ry.
Co., Inc.
, 31 NMB 450 (2004);
Portland & Western R.R., Inc.,
31
NMB 71 (2003);
American Airlines and Reno Air
, 26 NMB 467
(1999). Further, the Board has noted that a substantial degree
of overlapping ownership, senior management, and Boards of
Directors is critical to finding a single transportation system.
Precision Valley Aviation, Inc., d/b/a Precision Airlines and
Valley Flying Serv., Inc., d/b/a Northeast Express Reg?l Airlines
,
20 NMB 619 (1993).

I can't tell you how many I've flown with that are wetting themselves because they're so excited to vote yes to Chipaways offer of a 0% raise...

 

[doh]

Well done.

 

[pilotyip]

What will a union do for you, more pay? more days? maybe? of course until you get no pay and all your days off.