Regional Pay Comparisons

[detwilers]

ACA Section 4.A.1

A. Reserve Line holders Bid Period Guarantee


The pilots adjusted monthly guarantee will be increased to a maximum of 80 hours for all credited, assigned or actual flight hours in excess of 3.75 hours on any regular reserve day (not to include ready reserve assignments). A pilot with more than 80 hours of assigned or actual flight time, towards guarantee, will receive the sum of all credited hours for the month in addition to all hours credited above guarantee.

This is the magic section in the contract. Read is carefully. You have to remember that once you were able to get your TOWARD guarantee back up to 80 hours you still have to add in the ABOVE guarantee stuff. Most of the ABOVE guarantee stuff was airport standby but there were many ways to get ABOVE guarantee. For one if you picked up a trip or reserve day on a day off then that day was ABOVE guarantee.


So… when you added the ABOVE to the TOWARD of 80 hours, I usually ended up in the low 90 hours while some actually where in the high 90's.


One more thing to add. We were able to trade reserve day with ourselves. When you traded a reserve day to a day off the new reserve day is now paid ABOVE guarantee because it was originally a day off. You could do a couple of trades in the month if you did not get airport standby and this would have the same affect.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Well you can! I don’t know how many other airlines you have flown for but there are still many other good contracts out there especially outside of the regionals. ExpressJet, for the most part, has a very good contract. I just wish the reserve section was better. I think they have neglected that section because the mentality here is you are only on reserve for 2 months and we have bigger fish to fry (MCD issue).

SayAgain,

Just to clarify - We spent over a year on the scheduling section of the contract and the reserve portion of the scheduling section was the very first area to be tackled in that section. A LOT of negotiating capital was spent on the reserve section since Contract 97's reserve section pretty much sucked and allowed the company to do whatever they pleased with a reserve. Below I've pasted the highlights of the reserve section in a bullet pointed format. This is taken directly from the contract road show materials that we used to explain the new contract. By looking at the bullet points you can see the new additions to the reserve section and can somewhat glean how bad we had it before. If you want a copy of our old contract to compare, PM me. Seriously, I cannot stress how huge some of these improvements were. As to the MCD issue, that was one of these last things negotiated and the reserve section was done well in advance of that provision.

-Neal


Reserves



· 12 days off in a 31-day bid period and 11 days off in a 30-day bid period.



· Reserves will no longer have days off pro-rated in a vacation month.



· Reserve call-out system significantly improved – new system is consistent, easy to follow, and predictable.



· 12-hour Long-Call/ 2-hour Short-Call reserve call out system.



· Long-Call pilots have 2 hours to respond to Scheduling’s initial phone call.



· Will Fly/No Preference system for reserves for both long call and short call pilots.



· Pilots will have access to reserve availability screen in CCS (CMRAV).



· Except for training or consolidation of skills and knowledge, assignments to reserves will not be made more than 48 hours prior to the report time of the trip.



· Open time order of assignment improved and clarified with provisions for “green” pilots to get off “high minimums” as fast as possible.



· Reserve pilot has option of checking CCS for release at end of trip instead of calling Crew Scheduling.



· Upon completion of a trip, reserve pilot can be reassigned or released to domicile rest/days off but cannot be put back on phone availability.



· Airport Standby (ASB)

• • On last day of reserve, pilots cannot be assigned ASB after 1300.

• • If a pilot completes a flight assignment and is then assigned ASB, he will be credited for each event separately.

• • Company may not move a reserve pilot’s day off for purposes of assigning ASB.

• • Company may not Junior Man a reserve pilot for ASB.

• • Credit value of ASB increased from 3.75 hours to 4.0 hours.

· Volunteer list for out-of-domicile reserve.



· A reserve whose day off is rolled will have his day off restored and be paid 150% for the rolled day.

 

[detwilers]

Neal: thanks for the info. I was ignorant of the fact. I do know that reserve has come a LONG was in the past few years at most of the regionals. Mainly due the Witlow rest rules, Al Gores advent of the internet, and lot of hard work from the unions. I really do appreciate all the hard work to union does, plain and simple.

With that said what do you think the chance of getting rid of first in first out and going to strictly seniority for the reserve order and the ability to trade/pickup reserve days. It seems the latter would help all parties and should not take any negotiating capital? Unless of course there is the computer programming problem.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal: thanks for the info. I was ignorant of the fact. I do know that reserve has come a LONG was in the past few years at most of the regionals. Mainly due the Witlow rest rules, Al Gores advent of the internet, and lot of hard work from the unions. I really do appreciate all the hard work to union does, plain and simple.

Whitlow was a big improvement but not nearly the improvement that was needed and so the lion's share of the needed improvements must come through the bargaining process.

With that said what do you think the chance of getting rid of first in first out and going to strictly seniority for the reserve order and the ability to trade/pickup reserve days. It seems the latter would help all parties and should not take any negotiating capital? Unless of course there is the computer programming problem.

I'm not sure if you are on reserve at XJT but if you think we have a FIFO system, I think you need to reread our reserve call-out section. We have no mention anywhere in our entire contract of FIFO. It is based on a leveling system for the no-preferences and seniority for the will-fly's. Below is the appropriate section (Section 21.I.6). The formatting might be messed up so go to the actual contract for a better version.

1. Reserve Pilot Categories and Assignments

a. A reserve pilot will be placed into a category (“bucket”) each day according to the number of available reserve days that are remaining in his current block of reserve days.

b. A reserve pilot with 5 or more reserve days available in a block will be placed into the 4-day bucket.

c. A reserve pilot may select will fly for a block of reserve days by notifying Crew Scheduling at least 48 hours before the first day of the reserve block.

d. If a pilot does not select will-fly, he will be considered no-preference.

e. Airport standby may be assigned to any reserve pilot available. However, airport standby will be assigned to a will-fly pilot before it is assigned to a no-preference pilot who has the same number of reserve days available.

f. Assignments to reserve pilots will be made in the following order:

Long-call/will-fly in seniority order in the bucket that contains the same number of reserve days available as the days of the assignment.

Long-call/will-fly in seniority order in a bucket that contains 1 more day of reserve availability than the assignment requires. The Company may also give an assignment to a long-call/will-fly pilot in seniority order in a bucket that contains more than 1 additional day of reserve availability.

Long-call/no-preference in reverse order of line value, lowest credit hours first, in the bucket that contains the same number of reserve days as the days in the assignment. If more than 1 pilot has the same line value, they will be assigned in reverse seniority order.

Long-call/no-preference in reverse order of line value, lowest credit hours first, in a bucket that contains 1 more day of reserve availability than the assignment requires. If more than 1 pilot has the same line value, they will be assigned in reverse seniority order. The Company may give an assignment to a long-call/no-preference pilot in a bucket that contains more than 1 additional day of reserve availability.

Short-call/will-fly in seniority order within the bucket that contains the same number of reserve days as the days in the assignment and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment.

Short-call/will-fly in seniority order in a bucket that contains 1 more day of reserve availability than the assignment requires and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment. The Company may also give an assignment to a short-call/will-fly pilot in seniority order in a bucket that contains more than 1 additional day of reserve availability and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment.

Short-call/no-preference in reverse order of line value, lowest credit hours first, in the bucket that contains the same number of reserve days available as the days in the assignment and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment. If more than one pilot has the same line value, they will be assigned in reverse seniority order.

Short-call/no-preference in reverse order of line value, lowest credit hours first, in a bucket that contains 1 more day of reserve availability than the assignment requires and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment. If more than 1 pilot has the same line value, they will be assigned in reverse seniority order. The Company may give an assignment to a short-call/no-preference pilot in a bucket that contains more than 1 additional day of reserve availability and within the same phone availability period selected to cover the assignment.

Any remaining available reserve pilot.

g. Notwithstanding I.6.f., above, a reserve pilot who has a line value of 52 or more credit hours in a bid period will be bypassed until all other available reserve pilots have a line value of at least 52 credit hours. If all available reserve pilots have a line value of at least 52 credit hours, assignments to reserve pilots will be made in the order set forth in I.6.f., above. The Company and the Association may agree to modify the credit hour value in this paragraph.

 

[detwilers]

Neal: Yes I am on reserve here. I was planning on bidding reserve for the foreseeable future too. I have read the contract. The words "first in first out" that I am referring to come from CCS. At the top of the page under reserve availability...

CMRSVE CREW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM T2272100
COEX RESERVE AVAILABILITY REPORT PAGE: 04
SEQ BY: FIRST IN FIRST OUT

So sorry if I used the wrong term. Let me rephrase then... What is the chance of going away from the "leveling system" and going to strictly seniority for the no preference guys? Is there a benefit to the company to have the leveling system over seniority order?

I must say goodbye my wife is mad that I am not pulling my weight with the chores. I have been ordered to turn off the computer for the day and so back to work I go.

 

[Nova]

I don't see anyone signing on for a seniority based pool vs. the leveling system. Once our seniority list stops moving those at the bottom will forever be used while the top guys never get touched. Forget that. I think the leveling system works just fine as it's fair AND balanced. The system can always use some tweeks though.

I personally would like to see a No Fly preference in addition to our Will Fly and No Preference choices. The wording needs to be changed so that the Will Fly folks actually fly instead of being given ASB. Folks with No Preference are flying more than the Will Fly pilots at times.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal: Yes I am on reserve here. I was planning on bidding reserve for the foreseeable future too. I have read the contract. The words "first in first out" that I am referring to come from CCS. At the top of the page under reserve availability...

CMRSVE CREW MANAGEMENT SYSTEM T2272100
COEX RESERVE AVAILABILITY REPORT PAGE: 04
SEQ BY: FIRST IN FIRST OUT

So sorry if I used the wrong term. Let me rephrase then... What is the chance of going away from the "leveling system" and going to strictly seniority for the no preference guys? Is there a benefit to the company to have the leveling system over seniority order?

I must say goodbye my wife is mad that I am not pulling my weight with the chores. I have been ordered to turn off the computer for the day and so back to work I go.

The "Honey Do" list eh?

No worries on the FIFO thing. I was just surprised to see someone of your knowledge level think we had FIFO. That title is apparently an error or a typo. I already have an email in about it. Thanks for pointing it out. FIFO is not a fair system in our eyes. We debated various reserve systems ad nauseum during negotiations and ultimately wanted a tiered system that placed the will-fly's in seniority order and the no-preferences by leveling. Leveling ensures that everyone gets to fly. Inequities exist more in a FIFO world than in our system. No reserve system is perfect but we think ours more adequately addresses the wants and needs of our pilot group than other systems out there. There is always room for tweaking however.

-Neal

 

[detwilers]

I don't see anyone signing on for a seniority based pool vs. the leveling system. Once our seniority list stops moving those at the bottom will forever be used while the top guys never get touched.

Not necessarily, you have to look at the big picture. The junior guys would end up somewhere near the middle of the list because the more senior guys that want to fly, will be flown first. The key is making reserve a little more lucrative so that some people that would normally hold a line will have incentive to bid reserve occasionally. Some of these guys would want to be on fly me first so that they can get their pay way up for the month while some put themselves on call me last to fly a little less but pay suffers slightly.

Even when the airplane deliveries come to a halt at XJT, there will still be way more movement here than there was at indy. As long as there is some movement no one would be "stuck" on reserve for years like many of us were at indy (No one was hiring back then and indy was slowly shrinking up until the mass furloughs started in Jan.). Besides, if more senior guys bid reserve it will free up some hard lines for more junior people that really want them and hence making your time on reserve much less. I do think the fairest way is to use seniority. We don’t take all the pairings at the beginning of the month and split them into equal lines with equal pay and equal days off. The more senior hard lines are better than the junior lines. Seniority rules in this industry.

However the idea mentioned earlier about having an additional call category may help a little. There have been many times when I’ve checked CCS to see a dreaded four day trip in my schedule (I prefer one or two day stints). One day I was talking to a buddy of mine that was below me in the same bucket and he was telling me how since he commuted he would love to have the four day I had instead of nothing. A lot of people that are on “No Preference” do not necessarily not want to fly. Neal: when you pointed out the FIFO thing I instantly realized that I had the wording wrong. If I had to choice between FIFO and the current leveling system, I would take the leveling system any day. We used to use FIFO at ACA a long time ago.

 

[Bart Simpson]

Wait a minute, pilots get credited for time they don't fly? And the company pays that? Man, I need that kind of union to negotiate my next contract, thats for sure.

I'm just kidding, you guys aren't overpaid at all, it's just all that tuition you need to pay back that puts the regional pilots in such piss poor moods, gripping about not earning enough money.
Totally understandable.


-OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, I SAID BACON AND EGGS !!!

 

[Nova]

Not necessarily, you have to look at the big picture. The junior guys would end up somewhere near the middle of the list because the more senior guys that want to fly, will be flown first. The key is making reserve a little more lucrative so that some people that would normally hold a line will have incentive to bid reserve occasionally. Some of these guys would want to be on fly me first so that they can get their pay way up for the month while some put themselves on call me last to fly a little less but pay suffers slightly.

I don't think making assumptions that the junior guys won't "really" be junior due to the bidding habits of more senior pilots will make for better work rules. A line holder bidding Reserve/Will Fly? Why the heck would they not just take the hard line and enjoy the ability to trip trade? Assumptions aren't a good bases for Negotiating. We'll get screwed in the end every time.

Even when the airplane deliveries come to a halt at XJT, there will still be way more movement here than there was at indy. As long as there is some movement no one would be "stuck" on reserve for years like many of us were at indy

More movement? Wow, what crystal ball are you looking at? Over the last 12 months I've moved up an average of 31 slots a month thanks to the end of the Flowbacks, those hired at other companies, the 112 and now the PIGs. Will that continue after the last PIG leaves property? No where near that level I'm sure. Before CAL recalled we saw movement of about 1-2 a month. That's quite a difference especially when you have 2300 pilots. Even if we saw 15-20 a month next year that is not even a drop in the bucket when we have 2700-3000 pilots on property. I've heard numbers that we only see maybe 10 pilots leave a month for other carriers. Whatever it may really be I won't be suprised if it's not large enough to keep our seniority list fluid in the upcoming years.