Refineries

[414Flyer]

Because a bunch of nutjob speculators have driven the price to a point way above where the fundamentals suggest it should be. If you want another example of this, look no further than Google shares. The stock market and futures markets are not efficient. They fluctuate based on supply/demand, not fundamentals. Based on fundamentals, a barrel of oil should cost in the $25-$30 range right now. Oil prices will crash. You can count on it. It's just a matter of time.

That has been the case previously, because oil would get high, everyone starts to explore, drill and produce, and then supply again outstrips demand again.

Just not sure if that is going to happen this time around though. Too much demand, and many countries are already pumping they can.

One reason for the release of oil, was not so much to lower prices, which it isnt, but many mid west refineries use oil that comes up thru Louisiana, and refineries need to operate continuously. You cant just turn them on/off like a light switch.

 

[Almerick07]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

 

[Tarzan]

Why would any successful business, with very little competion, ever want to do anything that would lessen their profits? Fuel prices will have to increase dramatically before the demand in the U.S. ever decreases. If we reach that point oil companies may build new refineries. Competition is what we need.

-Keith

It's not the desire to build more refineries, it's the over regulation that has made it unprofitable to do it.

So far as the profit side of it, the cost of crude right is being born by the oil companies. If it comes from Saudi Arabia, it cost them what we are seeing right now. SURPRISE!!! Now if you were able to make (numbers out of air) 10 cents on every gallon but it puts a pinch on the prices and encourages people go and buy cars that are fuel efficient or not to drive, the consumption goes down so instead of being able to move, say, one million gallons in an area in a given month you only able to move three quaters of it in the same time frame. You've just just your profits by 25%. $2,500,000 gone. But if you drive the cost down to only make 7 cents, the desire to drive or buy bigger vehicles comes back and now you sell 1.5 million gallons. You've just increased your profit by reducing the price and are now able to move more volume of product.

The oil companies don't like having the prices high while the stock holders might enjoy it since they get profit right now, the companies know there will be a glut angain because demand will drop off significantly here as we buy small vehicles again. That demand will not return for a while until people forget about high gas costs. They may be making money right now but once the bubble pops, they will be making much less than they were before the costs started to rise.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Another problem is all the different blends of gasoline that refineries must produce. 12 it think depending on the season. There is no uniform blend of gasoline which reduces economies of scale.

 

[Icelandair]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

 

[Dizel8]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

Citgo is owned by the Venezuelans and our communist "friend" Hugo Chavez!

"The company is owned by PDV America, Inc., an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela."

 

[Flying Illini]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

Well, they have given relief to the refinineries on all of the fuel blends and reduced the sulfur restrictions for diesel fuel.

 

[414Flyer]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

False. That info is from a chain letter getting passed around, and its pretty incorrect.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp

 

[siucavflight]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

You my friend gets it. No more EPA telling us what to do. Let the masses speak. Drill Alaska, build a few more refineries and save this country from the deepest darkest depression that we may find ourselves in.

 

[skypine69]

What happens when we run out of oil? For those of you who are blaming the NIMBY's, I turn it around and blame you. Because you won't vote out politicians who support a shortsighted and irresponsible energy policy, we find our selves in the position we are in today. You want to use up all the oil now for yourselves, the he!! with your future generations.

Have you ever been to Europe? The gas prices there are double or triple what they are here. Yes it is taxed heavily, but what kind of cars do people drive over there? They certainly dont get tax breaks for buying Hummers as our wonderful administration has done. I bought a hybird car 3 years ago, great car, gets in the range of 50 MPG with efficient driving. What are you willing to do to make the country less dependent on oil? From the posts here, it seems to me that you are willing to do nothing.

 

[Icelandair]

The europeans gas prices are worse because they tax the crap out of gas. Take away the taxes they are probably cheaper since they have oil in Norway.

 

[siucavflight]

What happens when we run out of oil? For those of you who are blaming the NIMBY's, I turn it around and blame you. Because you won't vote out politicians who support a shortsighted and irresponsible energy policy, we find our selves in the position we are in today. You want to use up all the oil now for yourselves, the he!! with your future generations.

Have you ever been to Europe? The gas prices there are double or triple what they are here. Yes it is taxed heavily, but what kind of cars do people drive over there? They certainly dont get tax breaks for buying Hummers as our wonderful administration has done. I bought a hybird car 3 years ago, great car, gets in the range of 50 MPG with efficient driving. What are you willing to do to make the country less dependent on oil? From the posts here, it seems to me that you are willing to do nothing.

Bought a hybrid? Thanks for destroying our environment. Where do you plan on putting those batteries from your car once they need to be changed?

 

[skypine69]

Believe me, I thought long and hard about that when I bought the car, but I know that batteries can be recycled so I elected to go ahead with it anyway. Also, the batteries are supposed to last 8-10 years, (time will tell) so i figured the trade off between the batteries and the oil saved over that time frame was a positive one. Again I ask, what are you willing to do to reduce the nations dependence on a non renewable resource?

 

[Icelandair]

I'm going to buy a canoe, some sandals, and a loin cloth. Then stick a few feathers in my hair. Then i can live in harmony with nature, and not pollute at all. And the earth will be wonderful again.

 

[cforst513]

i have a 1964 vespa scooter i'm thinking about dropping 2 grand on to get it fixed. 130mpg or so. i may look like a dork but i'll be saving money on gas!

 

[FN FAL]

I'm going to buy a canoe, some sandals, and a loin cloth. Then stick a few feathers in my hair. Then i can live in harmony with nature, and not pollute at all. And the earth will be wonderful again.

Good luck, that'll leave more beer and pizza for the rest of us.

 

[Icelandair]

Theres no sarcasm emoticon on this site is there?

 

[avbug]

So, where are the major Jet and 100LL refineries in the US?

A number of refineries exist that still produce avgas, despite special interest group complaints to the contrary. DG International, for example, has fourteen sites across the country. Chevron produces their own, and so forth. The weakest link is that all obtain their tetraethyl lead (TEL) from Octel, in the UK, and it's the only source worldwide.

The last producer of 80 octane avgas closed last year, and that was Kern Oil.

The market for avgas is very small. Presently refineries only produce small batches, and only intermittantly as needed. Liabilities are very high, return very low, and little is produced.

We have the capability of producing more, but not the market.

 

[FN FAL]

Theres no sarcasm emoticon on this site is there?

.....

 

[Sniper Bob]

Say the orders were given today to build new refineries, how long from drawing blueprints to trucking out gas?

 

[avbug]

Orders? What orders? Whose?

This is private industry trying to survive. They just took a loss...with what part of that loss do you propose they build the new refineries, and to what end? Economics dictates that the price of the fuel goes up, not that more refineries get built.

 

[PaulThomas]

Say the orders were given today to build new refineries, how long from drawing blueprints to trucking out gas?

A long time. The team that designed the last refinery has long retired. It would have be be back-engineered.

 

[Sniper Bob]

Orders? What orders? Whose?

This is private industry trying to survive. They just took a loss...with what part of that loss do you propose they build the new refineries, and to what end? Economics dictates that the price of the fuel goes up, not that more refineries get built.

By your tone, it sounds like I offended you. I was merely asking how long does it take to physically construct an oil refinery? And by orders, I mean a private company being released from government restrictions to replace the ones that were just damaged and/or destroyed.

 

[Dizel8]

i have a 1964 vespa scooter i'm thinking about dropping 2 grand on to get it fixed. 130mpg or so. i may look like a dork but i'll be saving money on gas!

Two grand, what on earth is wrong with it that would cost that much??

 

[414Flyer]

One thing to keep in mind, by those who think they are saving energy by getting a Hybrid, is that there is a lot of energy and resources that goes into making a new vehicle, not to mention a lot of money that the buyer pays for.

If one really wants to save themselves a lot of money, and cut down on resources used, buy a used car that gets great gas mileage. Get something you can pay for in cash that is economical. Lets face it, some of the people doing the most whining about gas prices, are paying 30 dollars more a month, while already paying 500 a month in car payments and insurance, and in reality, are not having a big impact on what they are paying in total. Not having a car payment, and having just liability insurance, saves enough to pay for lots of gas.

Ever better, bike around.

 

[414Flyer]

Two grand, what on earth is wrong with it that would cost that much??

Well since it is Italian, probably that money go towards plastic surgery to make one have a bigger nose or to transplant lots of hair on ones shoulder and back. Oh and the sweater that one will not wear but have tied around the waist.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I own Dutch Shell corp. make me a offer...

 

[Lilah]

414Flyer,

While I'm a bit perplexed by your avatar, your views with respect to car economics are well founded.

My family drives a six year old VW Jetta TDI which gets 46mpg AVERAGE! The other car is a twelve year old Honda Civic. Both get great mileage, are very reliable, and neither has collision insurance since neither of us has had wrecks. Heck, we quite often we can't remember the last time we put fuel/gas in the vehicle. There's a lot to be said for efficient transportation.

Fast cars are fun, very few of them can match the "performance" of 46mpg. Why pay for speed you don't need if you're looking for efficient transport from point A to point B?

Lilah

 

[FN FAL]

414Flyer,

While I'm a bit perplexed by your avatar, your views with respect to car economics are well founded.

My family drives a six year old VW Jetta TDI which gets 46mpg AVERAGE! The other car is a twelve year old Honda Civic. Both get great mileage, are very reliable, and neither has collision insurance since neither of us has had wrecks. Heck, we quite often we can't remember the last time we put fuel/gas in the vehicle. There's a lot to be said for efficient transportation.

Fast cars are fun, very few of them can match the "performance" of 46mpg. Why pay for speed you don't need if you're looking for efficient transport from point A to point B?

Lilah

But I bet they remember the day they peeled the the paper off the back of that bumper sticker that said, "vote for John Kerry - it's up to the women!"

 

[skypine69]

Lilah and 414....I agree with you 100%. in my particular case i needed a new car and i have never had any luck with used cars, they always seem to break down on me, so I went with the brand new car. my point in all this is that you dont have to be perfect, but if each one of us does something to reduce our dependence on oil we will all be better off.