Refineries

[Vector4fun]

Deleted

 

[Vector4fun]

Seems to be a dozen "primary" reasons for no new refineries. Two that I personally know of were closed when competitors bought them, then phased them out as being too old to economically modernise and clean up. That is, if you believe the competitor that bought them.

While it may seem comforting to some to simply believe that Martin Sheen and a few thousand of his kind have such complete control of National Energy Policy, there are all sorts of market issues at play here. And the old money Conservatives of West Palm Beach don't want a refinery there any more than the Liberals of Malibu Beach.

Interestingly, I filled up a rental car in Iowa last week, and premium fuel, which I believe was 10% ethanol, was actually cheaper than regular by a dime. Don't know if that's because of a subsidy, a tax break, or what? I've heard that it's a wash though, because the ethanol blend fuel doesn't give as good milage.




http://slate.msn.com/id/2102031

 

[atrdriver]

One of the main reasons is the same as the reason that we haven't built a nuke plant for 20+ years. The enviromental regulations have become so onerous that it isn't feesable to build them. Between that and the "i don't want it in my backyard" people it has become close to impossible to get things done in this country.

 

[dash8driver]

The lack of refining capacity is our current biggest problem. Add to that the differences in gas that they must put out for all the EPA laws and we really ahve a problem. It's just amazing that the tree hugger crowd has kept a new refinery from being built for 30 years. That's something that needs to be changed, and yesterday.

very true and i agree with that....the cost of crude doubling is not a minor impact either.

to say there is a whole bunch of crude waiting for us to ramp up production is quite inaccurate. if that was the case, sauds wouldnt have been considering to try to increase crude output, the strategic oil supply wouldnt have to be considered and the price of crude wouldnt have doubled. those are all crude related solutions.




.

 

[Flying Illini]

Yes, refinery capacity IS the reason for the high fuel prices, we are operating at maximum capacity in that regard.

The reason for the petroleum being released from the reserves is this:
N.O. is where nearly 15% of our crude comes into this country (The LOOP alone brings in 11%). Now that N.O. is out of commission, we don't have enough crude COMING INTO the country to feed the operating refineries. Due to this, output at many refineries is dropping.
When we had enough crude, possible output is 100% and these refineries were operating at near 100% output.
Now these refineries aren't recieving enough crude to operate at 100% output, their possible output has now dropped meaning 50%-80% output is their new maximum.

By releasing oil from the reserves, many of these refineries are able to bump production back up to above 85%, thus easing some of the problems.

 

[ChrisNNJ27]

Wow I am actually surprised none of the doomsday folks posted anything regarding Peak OIL in this thread....

 

[bugchaser]

Just wait, they must be too busy collecting grease from Micky D's.

 

[Icelandair]

Stupid environmentalist wackos i honestly dont give a hoot about the environment i just want cheaper gas now!

 

[PCL_128]

if there is plenty of crude, why is the price of it so high?

Because a bunch of nutjob speculators have driven the price to a point way above where the fundamentals suggest it should be. If you want another example of this, look no further than Google shares. The stock market and futures markets are not efficient. They fluctuate based on supply/demand, not fundamentals. Based on fundamentals, a barrel of oil should cost in the $25-$30 range right now. Oil prices will crash. You can count on it. It's just a matter of time.

 

[keith]

New refineries ??

Why would any successful business, with very little competion, ever want to do anything that would lessen their profits? Fuel prices will have to increase dramatically before the demand in the U.S. ever decreases. If we reach that point oil companies may build new refineries. Competition is what we need.

-Keith

 

[414Flyer]

Because a bunch of nutjob speculators have driven the price to a point way above where the fundamentals suggest it should be. If you want another example of this, look no further than Google shares. The stock market and futures markets are not efficient. They fluctuate based on supply/demand, not fundamentals. Based on fundamentals, a barrel of oil should cost in the $25-$30 range right now. Oil prices will crash. You can count on it. It's just a matter of time.

That has been the case previously, because oil would get high, everyone starts to explore, drill and produce, and then supply again outstrips demand again.

Just not sure if that is going to happen this time around though. Too much demand, and many countries are already pumping they can.

One reason for the release of oil, was not so much to lower prices, which it isnt, but many mid west refineries use oil that comes up thru Louisiana, and refineries need to operate continuously. You cant just turn them on/off like a light switch.

 

[Almerick07]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

 

[Tarzan]

Why would any successful business, with very little competion, ever want to do anything that would lessen their profits? Fuel prices will have to increase dramatically before the demand in the U.S. ever decreases. If we reach that point oil companies may build new refineries. Competition is what we need.

-Keith

It's not the desire to build more refineries, it's the over regulation that has made it unprofitable to do it.

So far as the profit side of it, the cost of crude right is being born by the oil companies. If it comes from Saudi Arabia, it cost them what we are seeing right now. SURPRISE!!! Now if you were able to make (numbers out of air) 10 cents on every gallon but it puts a pinch on the prices and encourages people go and buy cars that are fuel efficient or not to drive, the consumption goes down so instead of being able to move, say, one million gallons in an area in a given month you only able to move three quaters of it in the same time frame. You've just just your profits by 25%. $2,500,000 gone. But if you drive the cost down to only make 7 cents, the desire to drive or buy bigger vehicles comes back and now you sell 1.5 million gallons. You've just increased your profit by reducing the price and are now able to move more volume of product.

The oil companies don't like having the prices high while the stock holders might enjoy it since they get profit right now, the companies know there will be a glut angain because demand will drop off significantly here as we buy small vehicles again. That demand will not return for a while until people forget about high gas costs. They may be making money right now but once the bubble pops, they will be making much less than they were before the costs started to rise.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Another problem is all the different blends of gasoline that refineries must produce. 12 it think depending on the season. There is no uniform blend of gasoline which reduces economies of scale.

 

[Icelandair]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

 

[Dizel8]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

Citgo is owned by the Venezuelans and our communist "friend" Hugo Chavez!

"The company is owned by PDV America, Inc., an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela."

 

[Flying Illini]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

Well, they have given relief to the refinineries on all of the fuel blends and reduced the sulfur restrictions for diesel fuel.

 

[414Flyer]

What goes up must come down and vice versa. If this trend continues our economy will reap the benefits eventually. All I have to say is buy your oh so precious liquid gold at gas stations that only purchase from domestic providers (Conoco, Citgo, Sunoco, Sinclair, BP & Hess) hell if the oil companies are going to make a killing let it be OUR oil companies and not the ones trying to kill us.

False. That info is from a chain letter getting passed around, and its pretty incorrect.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp

 

[siucavflight]

Time to drop the environmentalist wacko regulations. Bush should come on and say he is halting this madness right now, the environmentalists have ruined this nation's energy infrastructure, and that he is giving emergency orders to allow refinery construction and drilling now.

You my friend gets it. No more EPA telling us what to do. Let the masses speak. Drill Alaska, build a few more refineries and save this country from the deepest darkest depression that we may find ourselves in.

 

[skypine69]

What happens when we run out of oil? For those of you who are blaming the NIMBY's, I turn it around and blame you. Because you won't vote out politicians who support a shortsighted and irresponsible energy policy, we find our selves in the position we are in today. You want to use up all the oil now for yourselves, the he!! with your future generations.

Have you ever been to Europe? The gas prices there are double or triple what they are here. Yes it is taxed heavily, but what kind of cars do people drive over there? They certainly dont get tax breaks for buying Hummers as our wonderful administration has done. I bought a hybird car 3 years ago, great car, gets in the range of 50 MPG with efficient driving. What are you willing to do to make the country less dependent on oil? From the posts here, it seems to me that you are willing to do nothing.