recall???

[ExecJetCA]

Jeff Burrows, Dan Lieff, Eric Eichmann and Zoltan Prokay please grow up and try not air personal agenda's and air dirty laundry publicly.

 

[gret]

I think you are now in trouble I bet.....

 

[Partyfoul]

Jeff Burrows, Dan Lieff, Eric Eichmann and Zoltan Prokay please grow up and try not air personal agenda's and air dirty laundry publicly.

Instead, keep it hidden away from the membership that puts them in that position. Dirty laundry never gets cleaned if it isn't aired out.

 

[fly4funcrj]

The fact that more and more union volunteers are coming forward should say something. How people act in public sometimes differs from how they act behind closed doors.

 

[BentOver]

The fact that more and more union volunteers are coming forward should say something. How people act in public sometimes differs from how they act behind closed doors.

As much as it stinks to have to go through this at a time when solidarity is much needed, and the fact that it makes it appear the EMT is getting thier way. There probably will never be a GOOD time to have this occur. So as the saying goes, "no time like the present."

I am confident that Luthi has issues with opposition to his views/methods. And from all indications he has not treated even some of his own co-workers/volunteers/peers with respect. That does not bode well for how he has gone into the EMT meetings over the last 2+ years.

I don't think the Eboard should give in to any and all demands from the EMT (especially scope) but I do think it is time for a fresh start. And that is something that will never happen in the current arrangement.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I fully support the recall.. I can't imagine how Luthi has acted in meetings with the EMT. While I don't trust the EMT, I don't trust Luthi has had our best interests in mind either..

 

[BentOver]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I fully support the recall.. I can't imagine how Luthi has acted in meetings with the EMT. While I don't trust the EMT, I don't trust Luthi has had our best interests in mind either..

Sorry, I didn't translate my response quite right. I agree with you 100%:beer:

I don't think things are nearly as bad as Luthi makes them out to be. And as a furloughee I want honesty, not rally the troops propoganda. Also want a leader acting professional in all circumstances.

 

[Helmsalee]

Agree with wanting a leader to act professional but disagree that Luthi does not have the interests of the pilots at heart. We may not agree with his methods but that is not the same as questioning his motives. One is style and personality, the other is corrupt and sleazy. I, personally, do not believe the latter.
Helm

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Recall Luthi

LUTHI NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!!!
We are Tired of this Bull Sh*+
:angryfire

 

[BentOver]

Agree with wanting a leader to act professional but disagree that Luthi does not have the interests of the pilots at heart. We may not agree with his methods but that is not the same as questioning his motives. One is style and personality, the other is corrupt and sleazy. I, personally, do not believe the latter.
Helm

For me there have been way too many stories from Eboard members, former volunteers, CAPA, and so on that have claimed how hard ML is to deal with. How upset, and almost childish, he gets when there is a differing opinion. Now we have "angry bird" t-shirts that were going to be worn into meetings etc.....

I understand being pissed at the EMT, but it still has to remain professional to garner respect. No matter what has gone on behind closed doors I'm not sure ML is getting any rspect because of his demeanor and actions. And in the end it is Buffett's show, he has elected who he wants running it. And those peoole are not members of NJASAP or name M.L....

Unfortunately it is what it is at the moment. I don't like the way the EMT has run things (lack of new aircraft, a seemingly failing business plan etc) But I highly doubt NJA is any less safe than it was before. I mean it is Flight Safety after all. Does F.S.I really make us that much safer? I was just as safe of a pilot before NJA.

NJASAP voice has been heard. The EMT knows we think they are fumbling the ball. But to put on "shows" of public ridicule goes beyond what we should be doing. It's not our (NJASAP) jobs to oust a management team. After all, if every other fractional is outperforming NJA, why aren't they hiring, and why has NJA not furloughed?

I think M.L. has used fear and over exaggerations to try to muster support/unity.. Unfortunately what everyone needs is hard facts, not reports from a guy ousted back in 2010. People are resigning and taking jobs in Asia all based on "how bad" it has gotten, when in reality nothing has seemingly changed with the operation yet....

 

[AftCG182]

After all, if every other fractional is outperforming NJA, why aren't they hiring.

We are hiring!

 

[G4dude]

Sorry, I didn't translate my response quite right. I agree with you 100%:beer:

I don't think things are nearly as bad as Luthi makes them out to be. And as a furloughee I want honesty, not rally the troops propoganda. Also want a leader acting professional in all circumstances.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[BentOver]

We are hiring!

Sorry, missed ya.

Unfortunately I can't afford to go there even if I had a chance, unless your starting FO salary is anywhere close to $80K. I've done my time in the lower pay gigs, now I will only take positions that'll further enhance the families situation. No offense to Avantair, I've heard everyone seems pretty content over there.

 

[AftCG182]

...now I will only take positions that'll further enhance the families situation. No offense to Avantair, I've heard everyone seems pretty content over there.

It's all a matter of perspective, for sure. As a refugee from the Regionals, my QOL took a huge step up after coming here. Just got my W-2, and I can't believe that I made six figures flying a 12,150 pound airplane. (Year 5 Captain pay, 8/6 schedule with some overtime). I've never been able to provide for my family as well as I am right now.

I've said it before, but I believe that all of our greenest pastures are just around the corner! :beer:

 

[squonk]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I fully support the recall.. I can't imagine how Luthi has acted in meetings with the EMT. While I don't trust the EMT, I don't trust Luthi has had our best interests in mind either..

Do you hold the same opinion now that light has been shed on how DL acted?

I find it very telling that the same people that want to hang ML are giving DL a pass...

 

[imacdog]

Every last one of the EB should be kicked out. Going public with details on a recall effort for internal union issues is not becoming of the leadership and they do not deserve to keep their positions.

 

[G4dude]

Do you hold the same opinion now that light has been shed on how DL acted?

I find it very telling that the same people that want to hang ML are giving DL a pass...

Sorry, who is DL?

 

[imacdog]

Dan Lieff.

 

[niteflyr]

I though ML was being recalled, not DL.

 

[BentOver]

ML is being recalled (attempted) DL is not.. Whomever posted that DL was being recalled is either just un-informed or didn't receive high marks in reading comprehension

 

[fly4funcrj]

I still want ML out of office. He has taken our union in a direction that I think is bad. I think every single one of the eboard members should be taken out of office and a clean slate started. Unfortunately that is not the option at this time. Lets get ML out, re elect 4 new eboard members (who hopefully are not best friends with the remaining folks) and start rebuilding OUR union...

 

[fischman]

You guys... The angry birds t-shirt was a joke. You guys have been had. Time to get stressed about something else.

 

[BentOver]

You guys... The angry birds t-shirt was a joke. You guys have been had. Time to get stressed about something else.

Maybe if you were furloughed, hoping for something that resembles a career again, you wouldn't think it was funny.. I prefer that info passed along to us isn't a joke! I also prefer that dealings with the company weren't looked upon as a joke either.

Your statement just further puts into concrete evidence that it's time for a change at the top. Like it or not, Union Presidency isn't a direct line into NJA management. Also, Union Presidency doesn't mean that you should be making the decisions for the company. Let them attempt to do their jobs, if it doesn't work (like it is looking) then fine. But don't be unprofessional about it.

 

[rajflyboy]

I don't think the Goose really thought he could lay his golden egg so soon and with such a smile on his face.

Shame Shame on the sheep and their followers to cause such a golden goose delight.

My only goal now is to steal that golden egg and eat the sucker for breakfast.

 

[fischman]

Maybe if you were furloughed, hoping for something that resembles a career again, you wouldn't think it was funny.. I prefer that info passed along to us isn't a joke! I also prefer that dealings with the company weren't looked upon as a joke either.

Your statement just further puts into concrete evidence that it's time for a change at the top. Like it or not, Union Presidency isn't a direct line into NJA management. Also, Union Presidency doesn't mean that you should be making the decisions for the company. Let them attempt to do their jobs, if it doesn't work (like it is looking) then fine. But don't be unprofessional about it.

Then blame the people who were foolish enough to think that was going to happen and passed it on to you. Place your blame in the right place. Not Luthi for wearing the shirt, but the folks who made a big deal out of it. Not NJASAP for you being furloughed, but the company for lack of foresight.

 

[BentOver]

Then blame the people who were foolish enough to think that was going to happen and passed it on to you. Place your blame in the right place. Not Luthi for wearing the shirt, but the folks who made a big deal out of it. Not NJASAP for you being furloughed, but the company for lack of foresight.

It would be ridiculuous for anyone to blame NJASAP for the furlough. For any Union Eboard member to waste even 1 second of time thinking of a "joke" to play, whether they actually were going to do it or not, is absurd..

Even making the shirt or coming up with some stupid bird t-shirt idea shows exactly where Luthi and Co. mind is at.......

The messenger is not to blame for passing it along. Whoever came up with the idea in the first place is the one at fault.

 

[fischman]

It would be ridiculuous for anyone to blame NJASAP for the furlough. For any Union Eboard member to waste even 1 second of time thinking of a "joke" to play, whether they actually were going to do it or not, is absurd..

Even making the shirt or coming up with some stupid bird t-shirt idea shows exactly where Luthi and Co. mind is at.......

The messenger is not to blame for passing it along. Whoever came up with the idea in the first place is the one at fault.

Again, you're over-reacting over something completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[BentOver]

Again, you're over-reacting over something completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Quite the contrary... I have not given it 1 more second of thought than necessary to post here. But don't agree with your diminishing the antics(or possible antics) of the people in charge of NJASAP. Or coming here telling anyone with concerns that it is all a joke and to relax. Especially when you are not sitting on the sidelines hoping for a positive outcome.

If it comes to fruition that Mark et all have been a primary contributor to the current state of the Employee-Employer relationship it will be truly dissapointing. Especially the way Mark has talked down to those who may be next in line for furlough. Dismissing their concerns because "soon it will not matter for them".

 

[fischman]

Dude. May I call you dude? It was a t-shirt that he was wearing in the union office that someone else took and published. Another person made a joke about wearing it at recurrent and it exploded into this.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Actually I think the fact that we haven't voted on a single thing, the lack of communication for a long time, the 1.2 million dollar union building (for 8 people?), multiple contract violations where the union more or less sat idle, and now the "we will picket oma" in the 411.. Team Luthi has been doing what they want, not the membership. I think a lot of pilots are tired of it.. But.. It doesn't matter what you or I want, we will see shortly.. There is nothing you can say to change my mind and I yours.. We will have to agree to disagree..