Recall Prater Before He Blows This Merger Too

[vetrider]

Here's Praters dilemma now. "Gee, who should I favor here? Hmmmm, its not so clear cut now. Hmmmm, what should I do? Hmmmmm"

Actually the dipstick will probably stay neutral because he can't figure out who to favor here. Just like he should have done the first time.

 

[flygirlqt]

Make every employee of OURS in Herndon take a 60% pay cut, Toss chunky out for not abiding the majorities demands, or watch a bunch of regionals control ALPA, as they will be the larger group. Praters a total and COMPLETE sell out. F him, and Lynch, the two idiots that pushed this entire abortion called ALPA now. F Prater

I'm thinking more like a 100% pay cut. I am fed up watching my union dues fund incompetence. Combined with their pay and benefits I feel as if I am getting ripped off every month.

 

[Bad-Andy]

blah, blah, blah, blah..................

Prater is evil. Prater is the source of all problems in the airline industry. We're all doomed in this profession because of Prater. Gee, maybe Prater is the Big, Bad Wolf.....

Get real... The US Airways deal is screwed up because a couple of idiots on the east (the MEC at the time and one fine gentleman that even ran to Air Tran) would not listen to reason and kept pushing for an unreachable goal. A senile old arbitrator punished them for it. And now, instead of being good winners a few idiots on the west (mostly anonymous internet posters and people putting profane stickers on the jetways) are acting like spoiled children. With or without Prater it would be just as F-ed up. The same idiots would still be on both sides.

As for age 65, again, let's blame ALPA. The sad reality is a bunch of greedy old farts bought off a few congressmen and senators (one congressman from PA, a friend of my parents, was actually trying to argue the merits of age 65 over the Holidays to me). Do you know what the original language said (what the old bastards wanted passed)? They wanted everyone that had already retired to come back to their original seniority. You know who stopped that? Prater (actually ALPA PAC). ALPA realized it was going to happen, and at least by joining them, they had some say in the rule... We were betrayed by our own union "brothers," not the leadership. You want to take out your anger on anyone, let's make it the age 60+ SOBs...

All that said, Prater may not be perfect, and he may have made some mistakes. But, think how bad it would be if that idiot Worth(less) was still in office....

 

[Prog 2/2]

blah, blah, blah, blah..................

Prater is evil. Prater is the source of all problems in the airline industry. We're all doomed in this profession because of Prater. Gee, maybe Prater is the Big, Bad Wolf.....

Get real... The US Airways deal is screwed up because a couple of idiots on the east (the MEC at the time and one fine gentleman that even ran to Air Tran) would not listen to reason and kept pushing for an unreachable goal. A senile old arbitrator punished them for it. And now, instead of being good winners a few idiots on the west (mostly anonymous internet posters and people putting profane stickers on the jetways) are acting like spoiled children. With or without Prater it would be just as F-ed up. The same idiots would still be on both sides.

As for age 65, again, let's blame ALPA. The sad reality is a bunch of greedy old farts bought off a few congressmen and senators (one congressman from PA, a friend of my parents, was actually trying to argue the merits of age 65 over the Holidays to me). Do you know what the original language said (what the old bastards wanted passed)? They wanted everyone that had already retired to come back to their original seniority. You know who stopped that? Prater (actually ALPA PAC). ALPA realized it was going to happen, and at least by joining them, they had some say in the rule... We were betrayed by our own union "brothers," not the leadership. You want to take out your anger on anyone, let's make it the age 60+ SOBs...

All that said, Prater may not be perfect, and he may have made some mistakes. But, think how bad it would be if that idiot Worth(less) was still in office....

With such learned, well reasoned, intelligent minds like yours at work, I'm sure that all this will work out in the end.

 

[waveflyer]

be careful prog-
too much truth will destroy flightinfo's rep.

The problem isn't w/ alpa- and it's not w/ the MEC's or LEC's- it's with how we do seniority- and in your case- the general membership of the east and never having a majority willing to stand up and do the right thing and fully participate. The problem is that in the mid-80's hiring was so great that many saw quick seniority and upgrades and just got busy being "successful". No need to participate in their union from their perspective-they were successful and that clearly had everything to do w/ their superior judgement and flying abilities. Same thing at American. 'B-scales are okay as long as my career gets better b/c of it.' (i swear i think some of you are jealous that AA got to have TWA pilots as b-scale/too much growth furlough fodder and you didn't)

And then the furloughs hit as massive expansion usually will lead to contraction- the pilots left w/ a vote still had this huge sense of selfishness and entitlement. At every step- those pilots about to retire (before 65) took steps to first, accelerate- then, protect their individual career to the detriment of the pilot industry. When it came back on them, they didn't like it.

10 years and 93 LOA's that you didn't vote on- and you blame it on your MEC? There are airlines upon alpa airlines where you couldn't have 1 LOA be implemented w/o a vote. At some point AAA pilots will have to face how they engage in unionism. That it doesn't work when they CHOOSE to sell out the junior pilots. When you sell out even 1 of your pilots for your gain- you deserve what happens to you. And you all DID choose to sell out those that came after you=- time and again...

 

[Bad-Andy]

With such learned, well reasoned, intelligent minds like yours at work, I'm sure that all this will work out in the end.

Which part was not learned, well reasoned, intelligent, etc? I would say the same thing back to everyone that is trying to place the blame for all of our problems (company specific as well as industry wide) on one man's shoulders. Go ahead and throw him out (assuming we are still ALPA after Thursday, disregard if we are not...). What will it accomplish? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. The next guy will be just as bad (or probably even worse if you look at history...).

As for it working out in the end, who knows... It may, or it may just be a train wreck. That's beyond my control...

 

[ferlo]

As long as DALPA MEC isn't as stupid, arrogant, and entitled as the US Air EAST MEC was, they shouldn't have a problem.

Also, I don't know how else to explain this anymore...ALPA national had NOTHING to do with the US Air fiasco...greedy arrogant Eastholes put themselves in this position and it will be them again to blame when this airline goes extinct.

 

[Raoul Duke]

USAPA is going to win 100%. It is the wrong outcome but it is what is going to happen. Just as the NWA DL merger will happen. Bush will give the Dems one last f u on his way out. Keep in mind that congress cannot prevent a merger, they can only hold hearings and hope that the DOJ and DOT listen. It will not happen and the merger will go through.

 

[IronCityBlue]

I'm thinking more like a 100% pay cut. I am fed up watching my union dues fund incompetence. Combined with their pay and benefits I feel as if I am getting ripped off every month.

You have the best signature line EVER! That's awesome! Good catch.

 

[Lampshade]

Prater lead with weakness, and its all ending in chaos. Bring back Duane W. LOL

 

[flygirlqt]

You have the best signature line EVER! That's awesome! Good catch.

Thanks!

 

[PCL_128]

The Association has been "in real trouble" for quite some time....it's just taken a few of the cheerleaders a while longer to realize it...Of course the first step is admiting you have a problem....Herndon we have a problem.....

I find it ironic that you and Occam now want ALPA to "do what is right"....Neither of you care when mainline MEC's dictate the conditions to regional pilots.....You both repeatedly say that we have no right to that flying.....Isn't the DAL MEC doing what is within their "rights"....Are you now going to tell me that doesn't apply when they do it to another mainline group...only when they do it to a regional group?

You arguments are very similar to those of the RJDC.....Funny how things work.....

Your continued attempts to compare scope between a mainline carrier and a regional to a merger between two mainline carriers is ridiculous. I know it bugs you Joey, but they aren't the same things.

 

[PCL_128]

Make all the MEC's independant, with no oversight via National. National simply becomes a service provider of Insurance and AeroMedical and a PAC.... Wipe out the EVP setc etc...send them back to their airlines, and let the individual airlines MEC's do their thing. Negotiate their own contracts as they see fit, with whatever scope/merger conditions they see fit. No approval from National nothing, zip, nada. Let it simply be a service provider, and that's it.

That's exactly the opposite of what needs to happen. Power needs to be consolidated in Herndon. Enough of the independent MEC bullsh--. Time for ALPA National to exert some control.

 

[PCL_128]

But, think how bad it would be if that idiot Worth(less) was still in office....

Prater isn't even fit to shine Woerth's shoes.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Your continued attempts to compare scope between a mainline carrier and a regional to a merger between two mainline carriers is ridiculous. I know it bugs you Joey, but they aren't the same things.

The fact that Occam is complaining about being excluded from the table is EXACTLY the same thing....What DALPA did is legal....

You are making our case that a double standard still exists.....