Recall Prater Before He Blows This Merger Too

[grog_sit_reserv]

I'm pretty sure we won't be ALPA come Friday, I could be wrong of course, but for those of you still in ALPA with your own merger happening or waiting in the wings; you should start the process of recalling Prater.

He really made a mess of things for us by not following ALPA policy and I don't think he's learned anything judging by his lack of action as time wore on.

Recall him before its too late. Find a Pres that will handle a merger and not allow things to spiral into decertification.

 

[woody]

Anything that can block this merger in my book is a positive. NWA can do fine on its own! Lets hope between ALPA's incompetence,Oberstar, NWA's MEC that they can put the toothpaste back in the tube!

 

[Flopgut]

When Reagan fired the controllers it was a signal to mgts everywhere that employees could be ground up like chum. Prater has done the same thing by passing 65. It's open season on anybody who's anything; Steal everything, give nothing back!! Total lack of leadership on Prater's part and he could care less.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not that I like having to defend ALPA national.....but I don't suppose the arrogance and greed of all the mainline MECs acting on their own has anything to do with this quagmire....

The roots of this problem started long before Prater took office....

Changing the President of ALPA won't solve this problem....

 

[brainhurts]

Not that I like having to defend ALPA national.....but I don't suppose the arrogance and greed of all the mainline MECs acting on their own has anything to do with this quagmire....

The roots of this problem started long before Prater took office....

Changing the President of ALPA won't solve this problem....

100% Agreee.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Not that I like having to defend ALPA national.....but I don't suppose the arrogance and greed of all the mainline MECs acting on their own has anything to do with this quagmire....

The roots of this problem started long before Prater took office....

Changing the President of ALPA won't solve this problem....

You're right about that. So that brings us to the issue of the role of ALPA (or any national union). Should a national union dictate things to unwilling groups, like a tyrranical federal government? Should it bow down to the individual whims of each and every individual pilot group with no sense of a broader quality control? And whichever way it governs, can or should the national union prevent a group from seperating if it didn't get its way? If so, how would that be accomplished?

 

[PCL_128]

Not that I like having to defend ALPA national.....but I don't suppose the arrogance and greed of all the mainline MECs acting on their own has anything to do with this quagmire....

The roots of this problem started long before Prater took office....

Changing the President of ALPA won't solve this problem....

Prater should be the one to stop the individual MECs from going off the reservation. He apparently doesn't have the balls or the desire to do so. As a result, it's quite possible that he'll end up destroying ALPA. I give it about a 60/40 chance that uSAPa will succeed on Thursday, and there's a distinct possibility that uSAPa 2.0 will result from the NWA/DAL merger. If both of them leave ALPA, then the Association is in real trouble.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Prater should be the one to stop the individual MECs from going off the reservation. He apparently doesn't have the balls or the desire to do so. As a result, it's quite possible that he'll end up destroying ALPA. I give it about a 60/40 chance that uSAPa will succeed on Thursday, and there's a distinct possibility that uSAPa 2.0 will result from the NWA/DAL merger. If both of them leave ALPA, then the Association is in real trouble.

If USAPA is successful, it will only be because of the larger number of USAir pilots. In the DAL/NWA scenario, DAL is the larger, so a split from ALPA is very unlikely (unless there is a mass RJ PID0-II that is).

 

[JoeMerchant]

Prater should be the one to stop the individual MECs from going off the reservation. He apparently doesn't have the balls or the desire to do so. As a result, it's quite possible that he'll end up destroying ALPA. I give it about a 60/40 chance that uSAPa will succeed on Thursday, and there's a distinct possibility that uSAPa 2.0 will result from the NWA/DAL merger. If both of them leave ALPA, then the Association is in real trouble.

The Association has been "in real trouble" for quite some time....it's just taken a few of the cheerleaders a while longer to realize it...Of course the first step is admiting you have a problem....Herndon we have a problem.....

I find it ironic that you and Occam now want ALPA to "do what is right"....Neither of you care when mainline MEC's dictate the conditions to regional pilots.....You both repeatedly say that we have no right to that flying.....Isn't the DAL MEC doing what is within their "rights"....Are you now going to tell me that doesn't apply when they do it to another mainline group...only when they do it to a regional group?

You arguments are very similar to those of the RJDC.....Funny how things work.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

If USAPA is successful, it will only be because of the larger number of USAir pilots. In the DAL/NWA scenario, DAL is the larger, so a split from ALPA is very unlikely (unless there is a mass RJ PID0-II that is).

I would pay good money to watch the NWA MEC get together with the CMR, Mesaba, and Medex folks and file a PID....We could sell tickets to that event in Herndon...

 

[IronCityBlue]

I would pay good money to watch the NWA MEC get together with the CMR, Mesaba, and Medex folks and file a PID....We could sell tickets to that event in Herndon...

Yeah but even with the most incompetent, drunk, senile arbotrator the NWA pilots wouldn't have to worry about losing seniority to thousands of additional RJ pilots thrown into the mix. There are many other ways for the NWA pilots to apply leverage besides adding an additional, masive layer of risk to their own outcome.

 

[pianoman]

He really made a mess of things for us by not following ALPA policy and I don't think he's learned anything judging by his lack of action as time wore on.

Recall him before its too late. Find a Pres that will handle a merger and not allow things to spiral into decertification.

Prater did or the merger committee chairman? Does Prater have the power to unilaterally overturn an award?

I have worked with John Prater and know him to be a decent person who is very mindful of the rules of an organization.

I'm not arguing whether the award is fair or not. What I want to know is- what would you have done if you were ALPA president as this went down?

I have no doubt he's been in close contact with both MEC's throughout this deal. Just because he doesn't release the details of every conversation to the general public doesn't mean he's not involved.

 

[Crzipilot]

Make all the MEC's independant, with no oversight via National. National simply becomes a service provider of Insurance and AeroMedical and a PAC.... Wipe out the EVP setc etc...send them back to their airlines, and let the individual airlines MEC's do their thing. Negotiate their own contracts as they see fit, with whatever scope/merger conditions they see fit. No approval from National nothing, zip, nada. Let it simply be a service provider, and that's it.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Make every employee of OURS in Herndon take a 60% pay cut, Toss chunky out for not abiding the majorities demands, or watch a bunch of regionals control ALPA, as they will be the larger group. Praters a total and COMPLETE sell out. F him, and Lynch, the two idiots that pushed this entire abortion called ALPA now. F Prater

 

[Prog 2/2]

What I want to know is- what would you have done if you were ALPA president as this went down?

1) present the list to the company immediately after it was rendered. I mean immediately. Prater dithered about for months, and every day that passed gave credence to the east's idea that the list was "unfair".

2) Make it clearly known that, absent fraud, the list will be defended and implemented as per the Transition Agreement signed by both MECs.

3) Force compliance with that Transition Agreement or put the east in trusteeship and negotiate for them. They walked out of the Joint Contract Negotiations, in contravention of the Transition Agreement they signed, and nobody at national said a word.

4) Remove, through trusteeship, any LEC whose officers do not support the association. Many of those who held local office on the east were, and remain, closet USAPA supporters. This is not a new development, it has been ongoing since USAPA first reared its head.

5) Compel release to the east membership of the arbitration transcripts so that they can at least be exposed to the idea that it was the boneheaded, unwavering position of their selected Merger Comm(DOH) that led them to this arbitration decision, not some collosal "failure of the ALPA merger policy". It won't change their minds, but it is a truth it wouldn't have hurt them to hear.


Both Prater and the EC have waffled, formed committees, stalled, and allowed false expectations to take hold that are now coming to roost.

USAPA was born in that vacuum of indecision.

A little more vigorous leadership, much earlier in the process, would have protected the assocation much better in the end.