Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife:

You don't have to take any of these posts personally, because this board is supposed to be anonymous. You have chosen to negate some of the protections that anonymity allows...but that's not anyone elses problem. So if you call it slander, then stay home.

No, I'm not selfish to anyones plight. I think that sometimes people have to be protected from themselves. I believe that I do have certain insights as to how things can et in a union dispute and my assesment is that this pilot group does not have the stomach for it...yet!

If you want to call me selfish, then go ahead. It's not slander, you don't know who I am!

 

[Hawkered]

s:

Let's just let the NTSB figure this stuff out. American had a in Little Rock with the Chicago Chief Pilot at the controls landing in a thunderstorm. Experience issues are not as readily apparent as you might imagine in investigations.

Yes, I do know about that too!

 

[Publishers]

sometimes

Sometimes the realization of what can be obtained versus what one thinks or is told can be is disheartening. All the parties would be better off to accept what is there and set the sights on what issues are really important for the next time. I think as much as anything, the upgrade times are influencing the anger and rebelliousness of many.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Interesting comments. The repo deal is the same and the upgrade times just as slow at all the fractionals. The majority of life on the road issues are also the same at all the fractionals.

Someone mentioned in another thred that an investigation of the election process for the TA is already underway. Wondering where that tidbit was reported.

One would think that the IBT, after all these years, would have the administration of a memeber vote codified and lron Clade fool proof.

 

[Starman]

Publishers,

After the recent success of the 400XP bid, we only have about 150 pilots that won't be receiving "Captain's" pay. Most of them joined NetJets within the last 3-4 months and knew exactly what they were getting into. How then, do you surmise that upgrade times are the problem? As usual, you have absolutely no clue about what is going on at NetJets. Yet you want to seem like you are the expert on our affairs. Go run a company and leave the work of getting a decent contract to us. Your opinion on our affairs is of no meaning to those of us in the trenches.

 

[Publishers]

Well Gee Starman, your opinion is obviously worth more. The fact is that from many of the posts, it seemed to me that a good many posts, including Netwife, were related to F/o problems and there were not a bunch of posts from people saying they had been with NJ for 8 years etc. etc Are you saying that the people that have been there longer than three or four months did not know what they were getting into. Read in BCA about life on a Honeywell trip. Life on the road is the deal at Netjets. In many corporate situations, life on the road is the deal.

Even though you pulled off this charade pay increase, real upgrades have not been that fast and for the most part Flexjet and FO have not been on a real growth mode. CS is about the only one with real growth.

From an industry perspective, I know you probably do not care about that, the situation is industry wide. Upgrades and the flow up to the major spots has come to a halt. The career progression has slowed and the promise of a future jumbo jet job waning in the wind. This leads to disgruntled pilots. That simple. If this is not part of the Netjets culture, pardon me. It is part of the overall industry current status. That is why I still participate on these boards.

 

[netjetwife]

Hawkered, how about if the company acts proactively instead of reactively in regards to scheduling? One would hope that the pilots themselves would refuse to fly beyond their limits of endurance; unfortunately, those pilots too afraid to stand up for a better contract may have a hard time saying No to that last flight. It never ceases to amaze me that there are limits on the hours truckers can drive that are lower than the number pilots regularly fly. That many of them (and bus drivers) are also paid more than some pilots only adds insult to injury.

Publishers, my version of disheartening differs sharply from yours. Nothing lowers my spirit faster than having an exchange w/pilots and/or wives that are too afraid to stand up for what is clearly right. Unless, of course, it is debating the issues w/those too selfish/stubborn to admit that they DO recognize the flaws in the TA, but are too busy calculating what they personally stand to gain, to care about their fellow pilots (and their families) that would be held down by this pathetic TA--and I don't mean only monetarily, either. One more group that I find disheartening are those out there who apparently have no idea how to bargain for a good deal (though for some this may only be a smokescreen to hide their selfishness or fear). Take the FIRST offer thrown on the table--are you kidding?? Suffer thru 3yrs of a miserable contract without even being able to say that AT LEAST YOU TRIED to better your condition?? How VERY disheartening, not to mention damaging to one's self respect!

Grim Reaper, (btw, that is my 8yr old son's costume this year--inherited from his big brother-- ) Yes, one WOULD think that the IBT knew their business after all these years. Which explains why higher ups were interested to hear about the glaring problems/broken bylaws occuring w/the MEC election, and to a lesser degree the TA vote, at 284. Wouldn't you love to see the looks on their faces when it's a landslide victory IN SPITE of their shenanigans?? NJW

 

[netjetwife]

.
The career progression has slowed and the promise of a future jumbo jet job waning in the wind. This leads to disgruntled pilots. That simple. If this is not part of the Netjets culture, pardon me.

I have no doubt that you can find pilots using the job as a stepping stone. It seems more common, though, to hear about the goals of many to make NJA a CAREER position they can keep long term. My husband prefers the type of flying they do compared to his tenure at AA. The variety and added responsibilities make the job more interesting to many NJ pilots. True, the pay isn't comparable, but they hope to improve that well enough to tip the scales in favor of remaing when all the pros and cons of each are tallied. Perhaps if you weren't SO focused on the purely business side of things, you'd have a greater appreciation for the current conditions those pilots are facing in their endeavor to make NJA a job they can afford to keep, instead of one they merely enjoy.

Finally, about that pardon you requested...

To view your eCard, choose from the options below.

Click on the following link.
http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=103797648&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[niteflyr]

Tried to stay out of this but...

What exactly do you mean "having an exchange w/pilots and/or wives that are too afraid to stand up for what is clearly right."

You mean to tell me that because someone does not see things your way they are somehow afraid of the company or something? That sounds like the ultimate selfishness to me, after you repeatedly sit here and call anyone who voted yes selfish.

I voted NO, but I get tired of these tactics being employed. Everyone has a right to vote YES or NO, and do not deserve to be degraded if they didn't vote the way you and the SU said they should. For some people this contract is a legitimate improvement, much of which covers only the very senior pilots (notice the year 12+ raise %). Many long distance commuters are happily voting for the new gateways so they can improve their quality and quantity of time off. Bottom line, if more people feel it isn't an improvement then they vote NO and it doesn't pass. That is all, don't make it more than what it is. The ultimate selfish attitude is one of VOTE LIKE ME or you are worthless.

 

[Les Paul]

You mean to tell me that because someone does not see things your way they are somehow afraid of the company or something? That sounds like the ultimate selfishness to me, after you repeatedly sit here and call anyone who voted yes selfish.

I've been saying this for awhile now. I don't care how Netjets employees vote. THEY work there and it is THEIR own business. It is NONE of Netjetwife business how the EMPLOYEES vote. As a "wife" Netjetswife should have made 1 or 2 posts about her opinion, then moved on.

She is on this forum day and night PASSING HER JUDGEMENT on the TA, the MEC, and berating those who disagree with HER opinion. She also routinely states how Netjet pilots feel. Who is she to make that determination?

Believe me, she is very lucky that some the Netjets pilots on this forum have their lips planted on her posterior, because where I work, the PILOTS would have stood up and told her to mind her own business. Someone should have told her that after her 2nd or 3rd post.... not 170 posts plus that she has made in a month and a half here, and people acting as if she is one of you.

Wake up. SHE IS AN EMPLOYEES SPOUSE. Imagine if all labor-management relations were dictated by spouses showing up at your workplace.

The Netjets pilots that kiss up to her on this forum day in and day out should be embarrased that she is allowed to push HER agenda here.

Les Paul