Realistic contract pilot options

[banned username 2]

Actually a lot of Corporate jobs top $100k.... I know quite a few that first year pay is over $100k.... The pay has come up a lot in the last few years and is continuing to climb....

 

[charterpuke]

airbaker:

Try Clay Lacy Aviation at VNY (claylacy.com), Spirit Aviation at VNY (website says they are looking for King Air & Lear pilots: flyspirit.com), The Airgroup at VNY (website has some pilot positions open: theairgroup.com), AvJet at BUR (website says they are looking for PIC's & SIC's: avjet.com). Good luck.

 

[CitationCapt]

Check with these guys

I see by your profile that you have some Lear time. Are you current in the 35? Interested in flying cancelled checks at night across the country?

Contact Bankair, Inc. 2406 Edmond Road, West Columbia, SC 29170 803-822-8832; Fax: 803-822-8775

Talk to Randy Russell or John Dickerson, President . Periodically they need a Lear Capt. who is qualified.

 

[airbaker]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm working a couple of angles on my end. Hopefully one will pan out soon, as unemployment doesn't quite pay the bills!

In regards to my LR-35 time. I probably shouldn't have even listed it. I have less than 50 hours flying right seat for a 91 operator years ago.

The problem I've most encountered (besides the blank look on most of their faces once they see that I'm a furloughee) is that I don't have a type rating on the equipment they operate. I keep telling them I don't mind a right seat position at all (in fact that's all I'd expect) and that I'm perfectly willing to sign a contract to make sure they get good use out of me, if they type me. So far no deal though; there's just too many qualified guys on the streets now with previous corporate time and type ratings galore. The search continues....

Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[Ty Webb]

Empenage- isn't that the @ss of the airplane? Hmmnnn

As a former 91/135 Corp. Capt. who just made the transition to airline flying, I can sure sympathize with your situation.

Although you will find some of the "Empenage" types who will use your situation to try to defend their career choice and convince themselves that they made the right choice, you will also find plenty of others who will more reasonably decide that you will probably be available for an acceptable amount of time and, like myself transitioning to 121 Ops, will scale the learning curve quickly and be an asset to their operation.

I would take whatever first position you can get- probably day-hire work (contract) in the right seat of anything. Once you're out there (and not committed to any one company) you will quickly meet others who will put you in touch with some of the better operators.

Don't offer to pay for the training (even if it is Uncle Sam's money) unless you are dealing with a real bottom-feeder (usually air ambulance, freight or older small-cabin jet operators). As someone else mentioned- the companies budget for training expenses, and it's not too likely you'll get turned loose in the left seat without time in type due to insurance requirements that really value time in type above all else.

You might want to consider using Uncle's cabbage to get a CE500 type, just to have something corporate on your cert. There is a guy out of Carlsbad who does cheap-cheap Citation types, but for PIC work, most insurers want to see simulator-based training in the past 12 months.

Anyway, with your attitude and experience, I'm sure you will do fine- it is just at the outset that it is slow and painful, but it will progress rapidly once you get out on the ramp.

Good luck- let us know how it goes!

 

[hawkerjet]

Maybe I wasn't clear on what I was trying to tell you earlier. Some states will give you a lump sum payment (California is one) for job training costs. I'm not exactly sure but it's in the vicinity of $6000-8500. We took on 3 furloghed pilots to shore up our needs (2 were ex employee's who were furloughed and the third was a US Airways pilot. All 3 got money from the state to help offset training costs.We know the 2 pilots from Delta and USAirways will be with us for at least a year, the other pilot already retuned to America West. I strongly suggest you look into the matter, maybe someone reading this can expand further on the name of the program and a web address for you. I guess I'm a hypocrite because I don't think this is considered PFT, I don't know, maybe because you already paid your dues or something like that, but that 's not the issue, you're elgible for some money so make the best of it. I know most of the operators around Socal pretty well and only a handful ( VNY ONT SNA) operate the 525. If it's the one at VNY be very careful. PM me if you like. You are an Airline pilot and can offer the right carrier an experienced dependable person for a short or long term contract. The more up front and honest you are makes it easier for the company to utilize your skills effectively. Good Luck...

 

[marcs60]

WIA funding

Airbaker,

I am a soon to be furloughed DAL pilot I am interested in finding out how you were able to get funding for the training. I visisted my unemployment office in FL and was told that only specific schools were approved under the program and none of the schools provided aircraft type ratings. PM @ [email protected].

Thanks!

 

[Chocks]

Furloughee to Corporate

I just went through this whole mess. I am a furloughed UAL 737-300 pilot. I got hired by Avolar after being furloughed, rode that wave for about 2 months (At least I got a Lear-45 type out of it) and then found myself on the street after UAL shut it down.

Because I was with Avolar and they are based out of Chicago, I was eligable for WIA benefits from the State of IL. They pay 6K towards a type rating. I networked with some military buds and got an interview with a kick a$$ corporate outfit in BUR. They hired me as a Westwind pilot, the 6K towards the type helping a lot.

I have been flying quite a bit. It's a 24/7 kind of schedule, but we aren't on a specific time teather and if it's 1900 and no phone call you can crack a beer.

I'm thankful for the job, the money is better than I could have hoped for with EJA or a regional and I get to fly. Most of our destinations are cool places and our customers are top notch.

Do I want to give my UAL seniority - NO. I'm probably looking at a couple years before I could go back to UAL. If the ERP thing passes I would go back on 4th year pay (Over a 100 bucks an hour) with lots of days off.

I am enjoying the corporate thing - Could see how the schedule would get old.

Best of luck - would recommend finding out how much $$ you can get from your state and then walking into a corporate outfit and tell them you can apply that much cash to a type. This way you don't get typed in something that the company who eventually hires you doesn't have.

Fly safe - Chocks

 

[CCDiscoB]

Very interesting info here. I actually find myself siding with the corporate pilots. Maybe because I'm looking to go down that route. But a furloughed guy needs to work. I hope they all get work.

It sounds like Empenage is very senior at his company, either way, sign me up. At my age I need to find a company like that.

I see you guys know a lot about companies in CA. What about good corporate jobs in the Boston/NE area. I can't do full time NYC yet because of my ANG job.

 

[501261]

Airbaker,

While I personally don't have a problem with you getting a type and flying charter while on furlough, there will be some pilots that take offense to it. Some pilots in the business jet world have decided to become Independent Contract Pilots (ICP's), guys like Jeff Beck, etc. For them this is a lifestyle choice as it combines the entrepreneurial spirit and the love of flying. Some of the top guys charge as much as $1,500 per day, while this might seem like a lot of money; they also pay Flight Safety up to $40,000 per year and other associated costs of being a true business (lawyers, accountants, advertising). I truly respect these guys because they are running a successful business.

The biggest advice I can give you is to not undercut the competition (ICP's), the going rate for Citation V captains in S. California is $500 per day; the problem is there are moonlighters that are willing to do it for $250 per day, because they don’t have to pay for training and other business type expenses. According to a recent Pro Pilot article Clay Lacy pays his GIII captains $450 per day (industry standard is $1050).

Finally if you do decide to do it don't think that all corporate jobs are alike, it would be like comparing Atlas Air to AA, even though they're both 121 carriers. Some of us would never leave our corporate jobs for the airlines, because we find it to be superior to any 121 job. Unfortunately you will probably not find any of these good corporate jobs as they are few and far between. More than likely you will end up working for a POS charter outfit. Don't let the bad experience you WILL receive from that POS charter leave you thinking that we're all like that.

 

[CXAV8]

Hire me and I'll give your company a $6,000 kickback. Sounds alot like pay for training. This hurts the salaries and quality of life for of all of us.
I.E. G-IV cpt. accepting a 60,000 salary. Demand the appropriate wage for the A/C your flying. Just my two cents.

 

[DC8Driver]

Having thousands of qualified pilots out of work is what hurts wages. Supply and demand,period.

Where should we stop paying for training? Should we make them pay for college? After our private?

When you are out of work, do what it takes to get hired. Feed your family.

If you were out of work for say 11 months I wonder what your feelings about the gov't giving you money for a type.

We all look through our own set of glasses.

 

[501261]

You know I have to agree with the airline guys on this issue. If the government buys you a type and somebody hires you because of it, more power to you. As long as you don't undercut the going rate and hurt fellow pilots because of it.

My issue with this has always been the cheap operators that take advantage of pilots. I have never had a problem with a pilot putting food on the table, it's that cheapskate bum that pays 20% below industry average and thinks it makes any difference in the cost of operating an airplane!

 

[Ty Webb]

Look guys, it's pretty simple-

Get hired on your own merits. If you qualify for a program, then let them know it, but don't make it an inducement to hire you over someone else. Use your head. If you come with Uncle Sam's $6,000. check towards your training, whats to stop some other guy with bucks in the bank to get wind of it and to offer $7,000. to hire him instead, and then the company decides that pilots are flying whores and makes it a requirement for wll pilots to pay for their training.

Don;t screw things up by lowering the bar for your fellow pilots.

I'll tell you this- quality operators already budget in their training costs per employee, but the bottom-feeders are always looking to cut out a few thousand here and there, especially when it comes to their pilots- wshen you start waving your checkbook around, you start attracting the bottom-feeder companies, so be forewarned.

If you went to my old employer, and offered to pay part of your own training costs, you would be shown the door in a hurry.

 

[DC8Driver]

Ty Webb:

Spoken like a man with a job.........

Lets see....what are my options.........I can go to work for a regional for $1500 a month or I can go to work for a 91 operator at say $45K. If offering to buy a type gets me the job that costs me 15k that leaves 30k. Regional 18k....hmmmm Am I not raising the bar for myself?

To use your logic I could say you lowered the bar for us all by taking a job at a low pay/low fare airline.....B717......Airtran?
So you think you lowered the bar for UAL and AA? Nonsense. You did what you thought was right.

Again, do what you have to do for your family.

By the way, I have turned down two regional jobs......I won't work for $100 more a month than unemployment.

It is easy to to be rightous when you have a paycheck.