Realistic contract pilot options

[hawkerjet]

Maybe I wasn't clear on what I was trying to tell you earlier. Some states will give you a lump sum payment (California is one) for job training costs. I'm not exactly sure but it's in the vicinity of $6000-8500. We took on 3 furloghed pilots to shore up our needs (2 were ex employee's who were furloughed and the third was a US Airways pilot. All 3 got money from the state to help offset training costs.We know the 2 pilots from Delta and USAirways will be with us for at least a year, the other pilot already retuned to America West. I strongly suggest you look into the matter, maybe someone reading this can expand further on the name of the program and a web address for you. I guess I'm a hypocrite because I don't think this is considered PFT, I don't know, maybe because you already paid your dues or something like that, but that 's not the issue, you're elgible for some money so make the best of it. I know most of the operators around Socal pretty well and only a handful ( VNY ONT SNA) operate the 525. If it's the one at VNY be very careful. PM me if you like. You are an Airline pilot and can offer the right carrier an experienced dependable person for a short or long term contract. The more up front and honest you are makes it easier for the company to utilize your skills effectively. Good Luck...

 

[marcs60]

WIA funding

Airbaker,

I am a soon to be furloughed DAL pilot I am interested in finding out how you were able to get funding for the training. I visisted my unemployment office in FL and was told that only specific schools were approved under the program and none of the schools provided aircraft type ratings. PM @ [email protected].

Thanks!

 

[Chocks]

Furloughee to Corporate

I just went through this whole mess. I am a furloughed UAL 737-300 pilot. I got hired by Avolar after being furloughed, rode that wave for about 2 months (At least I got a Lear-45 type out of it) and then found myself on the street after UAL shut it down.

Because I was with Avolar and they are based out of Chicago, I was eligable for WIA benefits from the State of IL. They pay 6K towards a type rating. I networked with some military buds and got an interview with a kick a$$ corporate outfit in BUR. They hired me as a Westwind pilot, the 6K towards the type helping a lot.

I have been flying quite a bit. It's a 24/7 kind of schedule, but we aren't on a specific time teather and if it's 1900 and no phone call you can crack a beer.

I'm thankful for the job, the money is better than I could have hoped for with EJA or a regional and I get to fly. Most of our destinations are cool places and our customers are top notch.

Do I want to give my UAL seniority - NO. I'm probably looking at a couple years before I could go back to UAL. If the ERP thing passes I would go back on 4th year pay (Over a 100 bucks an hour) with lots of days off.

I am enjoying the corporate thing - Could see how the schedule would get old.

Best of luck - would recommend finding out how much $$ you can get from your state and then walking into a corporate outfit and tell them you can apply that much cash to a type. This way you don't get typed in something that the company who eventually hires you doesn't have.

Fly safe - Chocks

 

[CCDiscoB]

Very interesting info here. I actually find myself siding with the corporate pilots. Maybe because I'm looking to go down that route. But a furloughed guy needs to work. I hope they all get work.

It sounds like Empenage is very senior at his company, either way, sign me up. At my age I need to find a company like that.

I see you guys know a lot about companies in CA. What about good corporate jobs in the Boston/NE area. I can't do full time NYC yet because of my ANG job.

 

[501261]

Airbaker,

While I personally don't have a problem with you getting a type and flying charter while on furlough, there will be some pilots that take offense to it. Some pilots in the business jet world have decided to become Independent Contract Pilots (ICP's), guys like Jeff Beck, etc. For them this is a lifestyle choice as it combines the entrepreneurial spirit and the love of flying. Some of the top guys charge as much as $1,500 per day, while this might seem like a lot of money; they also pay Flight Safety up to $40,000 per year and other associated costs of being a true business (lawyers, accountants, advertising). I truly respect these guys because they are running a successful business.

The biggest advice I can give you is to not undercut the competition (ICP's), the going rate for Citation V captains in S. California is $500 per day; the problem is there are moonlighters that are willing to do it for $250 per day, because they don’t have to pay for training and other business type expenses. According to a recent Pro Pilot article Clay Lacy pays his GIII captains $450 per day (industry standard is $1050).

Finally if you do decide to do it don't think that all corporate jobs are alike, it would be like comparing Atlas Air to AA, even though they're both 121 carriers. Some of us would never leave our corporate jobs for the airlines, because we find it to be superior to any 121 job. Unfortunately you will probably not find any of these good corporate jobs as they are few and far between. More than likely you will end up working for a POS charter outfit. Don't let the bad experience you WILL receive from that POS charter leave you thinking that we're all like that.

 

[CXAV8]

Hire me and I'll give your company a $6,000 kickback. Sounds alot like pay for training. This hurts the salaries and quality of life for of all of us.
I.E. G-IV cpt. accepting a 60,000 salary. Demand the appropriate wage for the A/C your flying. Just my two cents.

 

[DC8Driver]

Having thousands of qualified pilots out of work is what hurts wages. Supply and demand,period.

Where should we stop paying for training? Should we make them pay for college? After our private?

When you are out of work, do what it takes to get hired. Feed your family.

If you were out of work for say 11 months I wonder what your feelings about the gov't giving you money for a type.

We all look through our own set of glasses.

 

[501261]

You know I have to agree with the airline guys on this issue. If the government buys you a type and somebody hires you because of it, more power to you. As long as you don't undercut the going rate and hurt fellow pilots because of it.

My issue with this has always been the cheap operators that take advantage of pilots. I have never had a problem with a pilot putting food on the table, it's that cheapskate bum that pays 20% below industry average and thinks it makes any difference in the cost of operating an airplane!

 

[Ty Webb]

Look guys, it's pretty simple-

Get hired on your own merits. If you qualify for a program, then let them know it, but don't make it an inducement to hire you over someone else. Use your head. If you come with Uncle Sam's $6,000. check towards your training, whats to stop some other guy with bucks in the bank to get wind of it and to offer $7,000. to hire him instead, and then the company decides that pilots are flying whores and makes it a requirement for wll pilots to pay for their training.

Don;t screw things up by lowering the bar for your fellow pilots.

I'll tell you this- quality operators already budget in their training costs per employee, but the bottom-feeders are always looking to cut out a few thousand here and there, especially when it comes to their pilots- wshen you start waving your checkbook around, you start attracting the bottom-feeder companies, so be forewarned.

If you went to my old employer, and offered to pay part of your own training costs, you would be shown the door in a hurry.

 

[DC8Driver]

Ty Webb:

Spoken like a man with a job.........

Lets see....what are my options.........I can go to work for a regional for $1500 a month or I can go to work for a 91 operator at say $45K. If offering to buy a type gets me the job that costs me 15k that leaves 30k. Regional 18k....hmmmm Am I not raising the bar for myself?

To use your logic I could say you lowered the bar for us all by taking a job at a low pay/low fare airline.....B717......Airtran?
So you think you lowered the bar for UAL and AA? Nonsense. You did what you thought was right.

Again, do what you have to do for your family.

By the way, I have turned down two regional jobs......I won't work for $100 more a month than unemployment.

It is easy to to be rightous when you have a paycheck.