Radio Pet Peeves

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Pet peeves..

"On the hold:" Can you think of a time when a controller asked you to hold short of X and forgot about you? Or when a position you hold is not visible from the tower? Maybe this is appropiate.

No, no, you missed the point. Most guys respond to hold shorts by saying "short of X, Candler 621." I can live with that. What bugs me is guys who are too lazy to read-back "position and hold." Jeez, if there's ever a time we shouldn't be dorking around with phraseology, it's going into position on the runway!

Oh, somebody mentioned strobes being a pet peeve. Here's my photon-related pet peeve: at night, if I'm pointing right in another airplanes face, unless I'm taking-off, landing, or rolling-out, I'll turn my landing lights off. Am I the only person that does this?

 

[MetroSheriff]

i sent this reply a week ago, but don't think it went through.

i've heard puerto rican islander pilots report their position on CTAF over 7 times

interesting observation did you happen to notice if they used punctuation

 

[VFR on Top]

ATC: "Acft #324 Contact Center 134.45"

Acft#324: "Acft#324 134.45 SWITCHING"

What's with the switchy thing?

Military phraseology.

 

[Jeff G]

Re: Re: Pet peeves..

Here's my photon-related pet peeve: at night, if I'm pointing right in another airplanes face, unless I'm taking-off, landing, or rolling-out, I'll turn my landing lights off. Am I the only person that does this?

Nope. From what I've seen this is a common courtesy, but not common enough. Really bugs me when someone is taxiing head to head with you, doesn't turn off their taxi light when you do, and stabs you in the eyes with a 300W taxi light. Personally, I try to avoid lighting up the other cockpit with my taxi light even from the side.

I also just love it when a plane takes the runway at night and turns on their strobes. Sure, it's a marginal safety advantage, but I still don't like it. I do turn on strobes when crossing a runway, though. That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Re: Re: Pet peeves..

I also just love it when a plane takes the runway at night and turns on their strobes. Sure, it's a marginal safety advantage, but I still don't like it. I do turn on strobes when crossing a runway, though. That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

Many carriers require it per their SOPs. ASA is one, and I am sure there are many others.

That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

SkyWest at LAX.

 

[avbug]

We don't have a policy on lights when taking (yeah, taking) the runway, or crossing a runway. However, I turn on everything. Landing lights to the taxi position, and recognition lights, strobes, whatever, go on. Daytime, or night.

I won over another pilot last week. We were approaching to land, with a Citation cleared to position and hold. I knew the citation was there, but couldn't see it. I was PNF, and called the citation in addition to standard calls. We were out and visual, and the PF stated that there was no airplane on the runway, he couldn't see it.

Just then the citation began it's roll, and lit up. I watched the PF's reaction; he was surprised. The next flight, he turned everything on when crossing a runway while taxiing, and before taking the runway for departure.

It's a good policy.

The only exception is when holding short from both sides of the runway and facing the other party, I'll wait on the landing or recognitition lights until turned so I'm not blasting that aircraft directly. As a general rule, I wait until the light beam won't illuminate any part of the other aircraft, where ever possible.

Even strobes on the runway may not show up well to an airplane on final. Those landing lights out there will show up a bigger surface area of the runway, and do make you more visible. Use them; use whatever you have. Don't wait until you're rolling; it's one less thing you should be thinking about. Consider the runway like the barrel of a weapon, and consider it loaded. Treat it with respect...runway and other ground incursions are still a hot ticket item at the FAA, and with good reasons. Our greatest air disaster still continues to be a runway incursion.

 

[Eagleflip]

So, I read all these personal (and seemingly inane) radio peeves and thought, "oh well...I'm not going to change anything I say on the radio." I even looked it up in the AIM. Ummm, mebbee they're right, I thought...

Then I launched off on a JFK-ONT transcon last night. And what popped into my cranium as I was making every check in? Bad memories of "I hate it when somebody says 'with you' as they're checking on frequency." So I didn't say it a single time. Not once. I was very proud of myself.

But, as we were about to exit Salt Lake Center's airspace, I heard the mother of all calls from Center...."JetBlue 89, are you still with me?"

Doh!

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Two of the most annoying radio habits I hear are a direct result of novice pilots' over-reliance on their GPS. Calling compass headings in one-degree increments, and calling distances in 1/10ths of a mile. How many times have you heard someone call...

"AAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNnnnnnnd, Socal approach, this is Bugsmasher 12345 8.3 miles northeast of Corona, looking for flight following to Palomar, request flight following, on course heading is 163 degrees....."



LAXSaabdude

 

[ATCER]

Thanks ATCer...next time I'll know. Always wondered about that. Out of curiosity, what does a Radar Associate do? Is it like an extra pair of eyes over you? Sometimes when it's really busy you hear a different voice over the frequency usually gives just one instruction to an aircraft. Is that the RA guy looking over shoulder?

About Radar Associate / D-Side -

To prepare for planes about to enter the team's airspace, the radar associate controller organizes flight progress strips by sequencing them according to when the aircraft will enter the sector. If two planes are scheduled to enter the team's airspace at nearly the same time, location, and altitude, the radar associate may arrange with the preceding control unit for one plane to change its flight path or altitude. The previous unit may have been another team at the same or an adjacent center, or a departure controller at a neighboring terminal. There are many sectors where manual separation situation exist. The radar associate is responsible for providing separation standards of these aircraft prior to entering their airspace. The radar associate may also assist the radar controller with additional duties such as coordination with other controllers, give clearances to pilots through flight service stations, assist in keeping the data blocks on the radar scope separated, look for traffic conflictions and listen for missed readback / hearback errors. Every altitude or route issued has to be entered into the computer via the keyboard. These control instructions are documented on flight progress strips as control instructions are issued. The associate controller may assist the radar controller by imputing route or altitude changes in the computer and mark flight progress strips when the radar controller becomes too busy to keep up with this tasks.

The better the D man the easier the job for the R man. It's a real team effort... just like a Capt. and FO. One note... at NY Center (ZNY) the D postion is called the H man, they have the additional duties of handoffs (taking and receiving) and they do not apply non-radar seperation to conflicting A/C due to the complexity of the operation and airspace. It is worked out by the R man (with a heads up from the H)


TwinTails - When responding to ATC you should always state the callsign first...

All - There is no requirement to readback a squawk code... we will see if you entered it in and that is your response. Most pilots read it back but I think that is just a habit on their part...

avbug - I missed your earlier post about phraseology (hey, this is one long thread ). You're 100% right, the odds of getting busted for phraseology are slim to none... BUT ... I did see a case where the phraseology was real bad, that alone didn't sink the pilot, but it led to the authorities to dig deeper. I will say it was BAD ... can't go into details here. Good point, I didn't mean to sound like an alarmist.

Hope I covered everything...

 

[Superfueler]

OK, here is my pet peeve, I think it is limited to the controllers at my aerodrome.

I'm in my little 172, and call clearance for a VFR departure (class C airspace). Nothing. Call them again. Nothing. United calls for taxi, and the controller responds right away. Then I call them again, and they decide to respond. Seems like they don't want to make the effort to wake up unless its a 'real' airplane calling them. Same thing happens when I am in the aviation petroleum transport and delivery vehicle.

Here is something I heard happen not too long ago. Not exactly a peeve, but a good example of someone turning off their brain when they key the mike. I'm on a VFR cross country, talking to center. I hear an Execjet C560 calling a CTAF announcing their position, etc. Controller comes back on and says they have the wrong freq. A minute later, same aircraft calls, announcing they are on a 5 mile straight in for runway xx. Controller again responds, nothing from the citation. Then the citation calls AGAIN, saying they are on a 2 mile straight in, but this time an airliner in the area says they are on the wrong freq. Nothing is heard, so I figured he got his act straighten out. Then this bozo comes back on, in a VERY pi$$ed off voice asking why no one is responding to any of his CTAF calls, and that there was someone landing the opposite direction and he had to go around to avoid a crash. After that, about 5 people on the freq starting calling him, and finally he responded, again in an angry voice saying he is on xxx CTAF 123.75, and no one is listening to him. The controller then said the CTAF at xxx airport is 122.8, and that he better hurry up and switch over. I was amazed that two people in the front of a jet can make such a mess up, especially an outfit like NetJets. Oh well......

 

[Diesel]

I'm going to have to agree with NJACapt. We fly into a lot of places that aren't controlled. The big problem both of us have never been there. We don't know what we are looking for. We are trying to figure out the runway, the winds. He's doing a checklist. I'm doing IOE watching his checklist, he's on 2 i'm monitoring 1 and 2. The passengers are up front getting coffee and trying to start a conversation.

Then I hear xyz traffic cessna over old man johnson's farm inbound. "

Where the hell is old man johnson's farm?

please don't use landmarks, or names of lakes, or farms. We aren't usually from there.

Please everytime you go into an airport anounce the airports name. It's so the conversation in the airplane is not "where was he going?"

Oh if those instructors from texas are on this board i enjoyed hearing about the date with the girl from hooters. We laughed for a whole hour.

I was amazed that two people in the front of a jet can make such a mess up, especially an outfit like NetJets. Oh well......

We screw up all the time. It's what we learn from it that makes a difference. Oh yeah and sometimes were just having a bonehead day.

 

[Diesel]

I was amazed that two people in the front of a jet can make such a mess up, especially an outfit like NetJets. Oh well......

We screw up all the time. It's what we learn from it that makes a difference. Oh yeah and sometimes were just having a bonehead day.

 

[Diesel]

Case in point. ARRGH stupid button

 

[ATCER]

OK, here is my pet peeve, I think it is limited to the controllers at my aerodrome.

I'm in my little 172, and call clearance for a VFR departure (class C airspace). Nothing. Call them again. Nothing. United calls for taxi, and the controller responds right away. Then I call them again, and they decide to respond. Seems like they don't want to make the effort to wake up unless its a 'real' airplane calling them. Same thing happens when I am in the aviation petroleum transport and delivery vehicle.


Hey... not sure what to say. Most controllers do not know much about GA ... we have all flown on the big 'real' jets and put a face with them, but most don't really know about you guys in the 172's. Some of us have flown GA and always try to go the extra mile for GA, any request we try and work out. I can't say the same for every controller in the system. Try getting a tour of the tower... chat with the controllers. From your stats I assume you're looking to fly bigger and better things. Try mentioning that and what you do around the airport, maybe even offer one of them a FAM trip up in the plane. Next time you (or another GA guy) calls up maybe they'll have a different reaction.

If it makes you feel better it happens to me... I fly every so often with a friend who is a CFI ... got turned down by a sector in my facility for flight following because he was 'busy' ... which I knew was B.S.

 

[flx757]

Where the hell is old man johnson's farm?

It's right between old man johnson's crick and old man johnson's woods.

 

[Jeff G]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Pet peeves..

Many carriers require it per their SOPs. ASA is one, and I am sure there are many others.

Yeah, I knew that, but it doesn't make it any more fun for the guy at the hold short line with all the strobes blazing away.

SkyWest at LAX.

That aircraft was holding in position at night at an intersection. They don't do that anymore.

 

[EagleRJ]

It's right between old man johnson's crick and old man johnson's woods.

It works the other way too:

"Podunk area traffic, SexyTwin 243DT is VEEDA inbound on the VOR-A approach, low approach only, we'll be direct to the MYSTIC LOM on the missed. Any traffic in the area please advise."

Right now, all the VFR pilots in the pattern know that someone mentioned the airport they are at, but beyond that, they don't have the slightest idea where you are or what you're doing. Make calls VFR pilots can understand too!

 

[TDTURBO]

I guess I really don't have too many pet peeves. I kinda enjoy the different dialect oozing threw the headsets. On those long x-country trips it makes for a little entertainment on an otherwise boring trip.

One thing that does piss me off is being dumped off a mile outside of a busy uncontrolled field because of a delayed letdown through a scud layer only to find 6 VFR guys doing pattern work. I think that is by far the most dangerous glitch in the system. It just happened to me at John Tune last week, very scary!

 

[KingAirer]

Speaking of radio usage...im sure all of the CFIs out there have some stories about their students (Theres not law about talking about your students, like the patient dr. relationship, right?

Cessna 4F: Off of Biglittleville IFR to Smellville

ATC: Cleared to Smellville as filed, maintain 4000, Squawk 4321, Say altitude

Cessna 4F: (Chimes right in with)...Cleared as filed, 4000, 4321, Altitude. (DOH)


Recently i had another...

ATC: Cessna 4F you are 5 from CAPPY turn left to 230 maintain 3000 until established cleared ILS 21.

Cessna4F: Left, Cleared.

?!@?!@
I had to laugh....


and one final blunder...and luckily this wasnt my student...

ATC: Cessna 44R turn right to 210 cleared for takeoff runway 17

....The student repeats the call, and turns to 210 ON THE GROUND, (which just happened to make some sense to him since their was a ramp/taxi lining up with that heading and took off on it! Yikes...


Finally, I would say one of my pet peeves is the "Taking the active" clear of the active...at Non-towered airports.

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

My $.02 Worth

Here is one that makes my blood boil. I have heard many times when aircraft call ready for takeoff at the departure end of the runway, the tower controllers only response is "ROGER". What exactly does that mean. Hold Short or Takeoff. I'm waiting for the day that I'm on a 1/2 mile final, and a student pilot thought process is....Well I said I was ready for takeoff, the controller said "ROGER" which means "OK", so I guess I will takeoff. When ever they do this to me I always say HOLDING SHORT OF 12R.

Along the same lines, I know the AIM says that turbine aircraft are assumed to be ready for departure upon reaching the end of the runway, but at some airports if one does say they are ready, you will sit. Other airports if you do call ready, you get a lecture.