Radio Pet Peeves

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Pet peeves..

"On the hold:" Can you think of a time when a controller asked you to hold short of X and forgot about you? Or when a position you hold is not visible from the tower? Maybe this is appropiate.

No, no, you missed the point. Most guys respond to hold shorts by saying "short of X, Candler 621." I can live with that. What bugs me is guys who are too lazy to read-back "position and hold." Jeez, if there's ever a time we shouldn't be dorking around with phraseology, it's going into position on the runway!

Oh, somebody mentioned strobes being a pet peeve. Here's my photon-related pet peeve: at night, if I'm pointing right in another airplanes face, unless I'm taking-off, landing, or rolling-out, I'll turn my landing lights off. Am I the only person that does this?

 

[MetroSheriff]

i sent this reply a week ago, but don't think it went through.

i've heard puerto rican islander pilots report their position on CTAF over 7 times

interesting observation did you happen to notice if they used punctuation

 

[VFR on Top]

ATC: "Acft #324 Contact Center 134.45"

Acft#324: "Acft#324 134.45 SWITCHING"

What's with the switchy thing?

Military phraseology.

 

[Jeff G]

Re: Re: Pet peeves..

Here's my photon-related pet peeve: at night, if I'm pointing right in another airplanes face, unless I'm taking-off, landing, or rolling-out, I'll turn my landing lights off. Am I the only person that does this?

Nope. From what I've seen this is a common courtesy, but not common enough. Really bugs me when someone is taxiing head to head with you, doesn't turn off their taxi light when you do, and stabs you in the eyes with a 300W taxi light. Personally, I try to avoid lighting up the other cockpit with my taxi light even from the side.

I also just love it when a plane takes the runway at night and turns on their strobes. Sure, it's a marginal safety advantage, but I still don't like it. I do turn on strobes when crossing a runway, though. That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Re: Re: Pet peeves..

I also just love it when a plane takes the runway at night and turns on their strobes. Sure, it's a marginal safety advantage, but I still don't like it. I do turn on strobes when crossing a runway, though. That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

Many carriers require it per their SOPs. ASA is one, and I am sure there are many others.

That seems to be more of a risk than the possibility of being landed on in position.

SkyWest at LAX.

 

[avbug]

We don't have a policy on lights when taking (yeah, taking) the runway, or crossing a runway. However, I turn on everything. Landing lights to the taxi position, and recognition lights, strobes, whatever, go on. Daytime, or night.

I won over another pilot last week. We were approaching to land, with a Citation cleared to position and hold. I knew the citation was there, but couldn't see it. I was PNF, and called the citation in addition to standard calls. We were out and visual, and the PF stated that there was no airplane on the runway, he couldn't see it.

Just then the citation began it's roll, and lit up. I watched the PF's reaction; he was surprised. The next flight, he turned everything on when crossing a runway while taxiing, and before taking the runway for departure.

It's a good policy.

The only exception is when holding short from both sides of the runway and facing the other party, I'll wait on the landing or recognitition lights until turned so I'm not blasting that aircraft directly. As a general rule, I wait until the light beam won't illuminate any part of the other aircraft, where ever possible.

Even strobes on the runway may not show up well to an airplane on final. Those landing lights out there will show up a bigger surface area of the runway, and do make you more visible. Use them; use whatever you have. Don't wait until you're rolling; it's one less thing you should be thinking about. Consider the runway like the barrel of a weapon, and consider it loaded. Treat it with respect...runway and other ground incursions are still a hot ticket item at the FAA, and with good reasons. Our greatest air disaster still continues to be a runway incursion.

 

[Eagleflip]

So, I read all these personal (and seemingly inane) radio peeves and thought, "oh well...I'm not going to change anything I say on the radio." I even looked it up in the AIM. Ummm, mebbee they're right, I thought...

Then I launched off on a JFK-ONT transcon last night. And what popped into my cranium as I was making every check in? Bad memories of "I hate it when somebody says 'with you' as they're checking on frequency." So I didn't say it a single time. Not once. I was very proud of myself.

But, as we were about to exit Salt Lake Center's airspace, I heard the mother of all calls from Center...."JetBlue 89, are you still with me?"

Doh!

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Two of the most annoying radio habits I hear are a direct result of novice pilots' over-reliance on their GPS. Calling compass headings in one-degree increments, and calling distances in 1/10ths of a mile. How many times have you heard someone call...

"AAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNnnnnnnd, Socal approach, this is Bugsmasher 12345 8.3 miles northeast of Corona, looking for flight following to Palomar, request flight following, on course heading is 163 degrees....."



LAXSaabdude

 

[ATCER]

Thanks ATCer...next time I'll know. Always wondered about that. Out of curiosity, what does a Radar Associate do? Is it like an extra pair of eyes over you? Sometimes when it's really busy you hear a different voice over the frequency usually gives just one instruction to an aircraft. Is that the RA guy looking over shoulder?

About Radar Associate / D-Side -

To prepare for planes about to enter the team's airspace, the radar associate controller organizes flight progress strips by sequencing them according to when the aircraft will enter the sector. If two planes are scheduled to enter the team's airspace at nearly the same time, location, and altitude, the radar associate may arrange with the preceding control unit for one plane to change its flight path or altitude. The previous unit may have been another team at the same or an adjacent center, or a departure controller at a neighboring terminal. There are many sectors where manual separation situation exist. The radar associate is responsible for providing separation standards of these aircraft prior to entering their airspace. The radar associate may also assist the radar controller with additional duties such as coordination with other controllers, give clearances to pilots through flight service stations, assist in keeping the data blocks on the radar scope separated, look for traffic conflictions and listen for missed readback / hearback errors. Every altitude or route issued has to be entered into the computer via the keyboard. These control instructions are documented on flight progress strips as control instructions are issued. The associate controller may assist the radar controller by imputing route or altitude changes in the computer and mark flight progress strips when the radar controller becomes too busy to keep up with this tasks.

The better the D man the easier the job for the R man. It's a real team effort... just like a Capt. and FO. One note... at NY Center (ZNY) the D postion is called the H man, they have the additional duties of handoffs (taking and receiving) and they do not apply non-radar seperation to conflicting A/C due to the complexity of the operation and airspace. It is worked out by the R man (with a heads up from the H)


TwinTails - When responding to ATC you should always state the callsign first...

All - There is no requirement to readback a squawk code... we will see if you entered it in and that is your response. Most pilots read it back but I think that is just a habit on their part...

avbug - I missed your earlier post about phraseology (hey, this is one long thread ). You're 100% right, the odds of getting busted for phraseology are slim to none... BUT ... I did see a case where the phraseology was real bad, that alone didn't sink the pilot, but it led to the authorities to dig deeper. I will say it was BAD ... can't go into details here. Good point, I didn't mean to sound like an alarmist.

Hope I covered everything...

 

[Superfueler]

OK, here is my pet peeve, I think it is limited to the controllers at my aerodrome.

I'm in my little 172, and call clearance for a VFR departure (class C airspace). Nothing. Call them again. Nothing. United calls for taxi, and the controller responds right away. Then I call them again, and they decide to respond. Seems like they don't want to make the effort to wake up unless its a 'real' airplane calling them. Same thing happens when I am in the aviation petroleum transport and delivery vehicle.

Here is something I heard happen not too long ago. Not exactly a peeve, but a good example of someone turning off their brain when they key the mike. I'm on a VFR cross country, talking to center. I hear an Execjet C560 calling a CTAF announcing their position, etc. Controller comes back on and says they have the wrong freq. A minute later, same aircraft calls, announcing they are on a 5 mile straight in for runway xx. Controller again responds, nothing from the citation. Then the citation calls AGAIN, saying they are on a 2 mile straight in, but this time an airliner in the area says they are on the wrong freq. Nothing is heard, so I figured he got his act straighten out. Then this bozo comes back on, in a VERY pi$$ed off voice asking why no one is responding to any of his CTAF calls, and that there was someone landing the opposite direction and he had to go around to avoid a crash. After that, about 5 people on the freq starting calling him, and finally he responded, again in an angry voice saying he is on xxx CTAF 123.75, and no one is listening to him. The controller then said the CTAF at xxx airport is 122.8, and that he better hurry up and switch over. I was amazed that two people in the front of a jet can make such a mess up, especially an outfit like NetJets. Oh well......