Quit ALPA Now!

[CopilotDoug]

Those of us who don't drink the ALPA koolaid do want to improve our lots...ALPA can't deliver that

Fantastic point, Joe. ALPA is part of the system which is resisting change. Until fundamental changes take place within ALPA, we can bank on more of the same.

 

[WayBack]

Fantastic point, Joe. ALPA is part of the system which is resisting change. Until fundamental changes take place within ALPA, we can bank on more of the same.

ALPA is all about change. They even spent your dues on mass producing Pro-Obama stickers for flight bags.
"Pilots who want change".......But it could also mean "Pilots want change...but we're really appreciate dollar bills."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Aw, Rez! I see what you're doing here! You're trying to play the trick of avoiding the suckage of ALPA and making me out to be the bad guy.
You're a tricky one, but you're not going to get me!
There are two types of ALPA victims. First and foremost, the pilots who are forced to be ALPA members. Forced to pay the 2% a month for nothing.
And then the other victims are the ones who are star struck by the ALPA cheerleaders. Those are the guys who read the pamphlet and believe all the hype called ALPA. Those are also the guys who can't see through the fog, and are highly impressionable and shame on you for taking advantage of their stupidity!

I did work for the local when I was at an ALPA carrier, and I saw the BS from behind the scene. The man hiding behind the curtain, he had this saying it went like this : "Ok, this is what we're going to tell them...." and then it was followed by some BS twisted story. That story always contained some truth, but mainly filled with BS and fluff.
The other motto our local had was "I have a plan for your situation, but we're not able to discuss your personal situation with you at this time....". That really meant "hey, I was busy fishing the last week and haven't checked any of my emails or voice mails."

So before you come up with more assumptions about me, I ask you take the blinders off and see that great big steaming pile of ......for what it is.

You say there are two kinds of ALPA victims.....




which one are you?

How does ALPA force you to pay 2%? Be the tough guy that you profess to be and stop the insanity. Keep your tax deductible 2%!

Seems like you and so many create your own expectations and then try and change the world only to realize that there is a process..... part of the process is influence and collaboration. Many guys have great ideas but lack the skillset to work with others. Ideas are great, but the actual work needed to make ideas a reality should be left to those with maturity and patience.

Fact is... while change can be too slow at times in our American institutions, too much change or change too fast can also be ineffective. The organization will be constantly changing and not progressing forward.

It is obvious by your sophomoric posts of snide comments and boyish insults that in short time you'd become persona non grata, whereas real professionals who volunteer their time, despite the frustration of committee work, work to effect positive change.

Combine that with ego manics who use ALPA leadership positions to stroke themselves, you got a real recipe for disapointment. No one forced you to be an airline pilot, no one forced you to join ALPA and no one forced you NOT to volunteer... No one forced you NOT to run for office and NOT be the smart, intelligent, effective agent of change every professional deserves. Don't expect others to be what you can't or won't be.

Not unlike the RJDC. A reasonable idea these folks had, although it lacked inclusion of all and was really a windfall seniority grab but it could have gained traction. Yet when it came to bringing in effected parties, these clowns had the skillset of a pouty 14 year old girl who just lost her texting privileges.


As far as your personal situation..... no really cares until their neck is in the noose, then suddenly they act like welfare recipients and want to know what gubmint gonna do for them. That is not ALPA's fault. That is your fault and your fellow pilots fault for not creating an effective representation structure on your property. In other words, the tools and resources were provided... but build your own house. Quit blaming those who are not responsible.... In addition, your "personal situation" would not have mattered if any other union was on the property. There are nightmare representation stories from the Teamsters.

But don't fret too much... victimhood is a way of life for many in the US. In addition, misery's favorite guest, Joey Merchant is on this thread... he'll show you how to be the biggest, whiny, most pathetic victim in the professions history. The best the self appointed victims can ever be are cry babies. That is what they do and they do it well. Acting like Wayne and Garth, sneering and snickering is the top of 'self appointed victims' game. It just simply doesn't get any better than that.....

So press on... be the best you can.... populism and puerlie wit never needed you so bad!

 

[CopilotDoug]

How does ALPA force you to pay 2%? Be the tough guy that you profess to be and stop the insanity. Keep your tax deductible 2%!

ALPA will actively try to get you terminated if you don't pay your 2%.

Seems like you and so many create your own expectations and then try and change the world only to realize that there is a process..... part of the process is influence and collaboration. Many guys have great ideas but lack the skillset to work with others. Ideas are great, but the actual work needed to make ideas a reality should be left to those with maturity and patience.

Those "with the maturity and patience" have brought us to where we are today. The current system isn't working. How much longer do we continue down the same path? And where do you expect the change to come from, the current ALPA leadership? A) They Lack the creativity. and B) They have every incentive of not rocking the boat lest they want to be back on the line working for the S***y contracts they foisted upon the pilot groups.

Fact is... while change can be too slow at times in our American institutions, too much change or change too fast can also be ineffective. The organization will be constantly changing and not progressing forward.

We needn't worry about too much or too fast a change with ALPA. The leadership at the top is very opposed to change.

whereas real professionals who volunteer their time, despite the frustration of committee work, work to effect positive change.

And they've also ********************ed up quite a bit in an effort to effect positive change. I'll venture to say they've ********************ed up more than they've fixed.

Combine that with ego manics who use ALPA leadership positions to stroke themselves, you got a real recipe for disapointment.

This right here is where I'd have to guess 95% of disappointment in ALPA stems from. If the spokesmen for ALPA were a little more reserved in their communications, they wouldn't spike everyone's expectations (refer to Obama as an example). How could people be disappointed if something didn't work out in ALPA's favor then? None of this "Live to fight another day" hog******************** (there will be no fight!!!) or "We got management by the balls now!". ALPA has created their own Anti-ALPA mob by setting unattainable goals. Tone it down a bit and ALPA might have fewer detractors.

 

[WayBack]

Rez, I'm not going to waste my time right now reading your long, dribble of a post. According to you, anyone who is opposed to ALPA in anyway or form, you try to belittle, insult and even try to scare. You look like a clown and you do a lot of damage to ALPA on FI.com. I have thick skin and nothing of what you say bothers me, but you show how typical ALPA reps are towards pilots who have issues with the Union.
There are even current ALPA reps who come on this forum and insult pilots for opposing ALPA.
One issue I will address. You constantly "do something to change the union"....well first off, I'm not with an ALPA carrier, but now that I know how many people have problem with ALPA and the fact that the AAA guys were able to vote you off the property, I would head up a petition to vote out ALPA. But I'm not at the airlines, so therefore I cannot.
I know others who would like to dump ALPA, but they just don't have the brass to put together a rally to vote out ALPA. The only thing ALPA can push around are it's current members, and they do this because they know they have no power against the management, so they have to flex there muscle on someone.
Pilots know that if they start to rally against ALPA, the ALPA reps/cheerleaders will do everything in their power to make their day to day lines as miserable as possible. They will threaten them, saying that they will make sure they're blacklisted if they want to move on to another carrier. They use the jumpseat as well, because it's one of their very few leverages.

How do I know? Because I know people at USAir who told me this stuff was going on. Also, I worked for a non-ALPA carrier and during a drive to vote on ALPA, reps were telling guys to force ALPA upon the others. It went as far as pushing and shoving on the ramp, in a threat if you didn't vote on ALPA. They also threatened the people opposed with blacklisting their careers.

In the end, the actions of ALPA reps/cheerleaders are highly immature and childish.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I'm not going to waste my time right now reading your long, dribble of a post. According to you, anyone who is opposed to ALPA in anyway or form, you try to belittle, insult and even try to scare. You look like a clown and you do a lot of damage to ALPA on FI.com. I have thick skin and nothing of what you say bothers me, but you show how typical ALPA reps are towards pilots who have issues with the Union.

Classic.... "ALPA sucks, and I am here to tell you so and if you don't change, ALPA sucks even more"

Sure pilots have issues with ALPA.... we all do. We also have issues with govt, church, family. Did you like everything your Mom and Dad did? Your spouse? Good god man... grow the phcuk up. You post on here like a little girl. Of course ALPA has problems. It is an organizations made up of imperfect beings called humans.

I guarantee you that airline management sucks even worse... but you don't seem to be fair and balanced... now are you?

There are even current ALPA reps who come on this forum and insult pilots for opposing ALPA.

You want to oppose ALPA.... there is a format for that.... First off, identify the problem... second... come up with a solution. That is the hard part tough guy.... The solutions are the hard the part... in govt, in church and in personal relationships. Why do you need to be schooled on this fundamental concept.?

The problem is... some loud mouth like you and your hate buddies get on here and feed the masses with your drivel. So you think ALPA sucks.. so the ALPA guys want to make you happy and listen to you and work to make you happy.. Then the next phcuk stick de jour comes in and says ALPA sucks... make me happy. So now what? Who to please? You the new guy or the tool that whines next week.

One issue I will address. You constantly "do something to change the union"....well first off, I'm not with an ALPA carrier, but now that I know how many people have problem with ALPA and the fact that the AAA guys were able to vote you off the property, I would head up a petition to vote out ALPA. But I'm not at the airlines, so therefore I cannot.

Classic... you are not even a professional pilot but its worth your time to come on here and trash talk ALPA.... are you serious?

USAPA is a major abortion of a union. It was based on failed fundamentals and they will be back to ALPA in less than 10 years if USAIR isn't bought. USAPA has done nothing that ALPA could not have done.

I know others who would like to dump ALPA, but they just don't have the brass to put together a rally to vote out ALPA. The only thing ALPA can push around are it's current members, and they do this because they know they have no power against the management, so they have to flex there muscle on someone.

You are correct that others want to dump ALPA.....

Pilots know that if they start to rally against ALPA, the ALPA reps/cheerleaders will do everything in their power to make their day to day lines as miserable as possible. They will threaten them, saying that they will make sure they're blacklisted if they want to move on to another carrier. They use the jumpseat as well, because it's one of their very few leverages.

Incorrect. I am sure you believe it..... prove it.

How do I know? Because I know people at USAir who told me this stuff was going on. Also, I worked for a non-ALPA carrier and during a drive to vote on ALPA, reps were telling guys to force ALPA upon the others. It went as far as pushing and shoving on the ramp, in a threat if you didn't vote on ALPA. They also threatened the people opposed with blacklisting their careers.

prove it. A group of AAA pilots that hate ALPA because they agreed to binding arbitration and it didn't go thier way.. sure ALPA sucks...

In the end, the actions of ALPA reps/cheerleaders are highly immature and childish.

So that justifies you coming on FI, a non ALPA pilot, and being immature and childish?

 

[JoeMerchant]

But don't fret too much... victimhood is a way of life for many in the US. In addition, misery's favorite guest, Joey Merchant is on this thread... he'll show you how to be the biggest, whiny, most pathetic victim in the professions history. The best the self appointed victims can ever be are cry babies.

I really get under your skin...don't I? That's good!

You don't understand me at all...but that's not surprising...

I'm not miserable, and I'm not a victim...I'm quite happy and very lucky...Many others in this industry haven't been as fortunate as I have....I simply don't pledge my allegiance to ALPA like you do...

I have had a great career during 3 economic downturns in our industry....I won't ever be a "real" airline pilot flying for one of the "real" airlines, but I have great schedules and make a very good living for myself...all while flying "regional" airplanes....

Skywest has made more improvements than any other management teams...and I have seen the worst kind of managements here at ASA....ALPA was largely powerless against the bad management we had here many years ago.

I would rather work for a great management without ALPA than for a terrible management with ALPA....I would rather work for Skywest than Mesa or Trans States....You would rather work for Mesa or Trans States because of the "Holy ALPA".....Different strokes for different folks....

You seem to have some serious issues Rez....I'm sorry things aren't working out for you...Hopefully you will find some happiness.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Classic... you are not even a professional pilot but its worth your time to come on here and trash talk ALPA.... are you serious?

This is another "Rezism"....He believes only ALPA pilots are "professionals"....That belief right there is enough to turn many off to his snake oil that he is pushing.....

 

[WayBack]

This is another "Rezism"....He believes only ALPA pilots are "professionals"....That belief right there is enough to turn many off to his snake oil that he is pushing.....

Well Hellz Bellz, I guess that BBJ is flown by a bunch of non-professionals. Better let my boss know.
Joe, let the 141 schools and the Universities know they need to had a new course to their aviation majors: "ALPA, the only professional pilot".
Actually, all but one of our pilots are former ALPA members. We're all glad we're no long affiliated with ALPA.

Rez, I seriously feel sorry for you. Hear I am, perfectly happy and well off in my life. I come on here and post these absolutely insane posts, that don't make sense 99% of the time and you sit there and take your time to respond to my gibberish. Then of all things, you seriously get upset about it. I watch how you reply to mine, Joe's and one other guys posts.
Since you like quotes, here is one for you. "Look around the room. If you don't see the sucker, you're it!".....I have a feeling you're the only one in your hotel room right now.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Well Hellz Bellz, I guess that BBJ is flown by a bunch of non-professionals. Better let my boss know.
Joe, let the 141 schools and the Universities know they need to had a new course to their aviation majors: "ALPA, the only professional pilot".
Actually, all but one of our pilots are former ALPA members. We're all glad we're no long affiliated with ALPA.

Rez, I seriously feel sorry for you. Hear I am, perfectly happy and well off in my life. I come on here and post these absolutely insane posts, that don't make sense 99% of the time and you sit there and take your time to respond to my gibberish. Then of all things, you seriously get upset about it. I watch how you reply to mine, Joe's and one other guys posts.
Since you like quotes, here is one for you. "Look around the room. If you don't see the sucker, you're it!".....I have a feeling you're the only one in your hotel room right now.

Good thing professionalism isn't judged by the use of grammar.:laugh:
And before you answer back with some smartass comment, relax francis, it's a joke!

 

[WayBack]

Good thing professionalism isn't judged by the use of grammar.:laugh:
And before you answer back with some smartass comment, relax francis, it's a joke!

You know me all to well, because I have been sitting here thinking of a smart reply to come up with, but right now, it's too darn early to think.
But I ask you, have you ever seen me get hostile because of someones comment? I'm so relaxed that they bottle my sweat to sell as a quaaludes.

Sorry about the spelling, I had only gotten 3 hours of sleep the night before and it was late when I made the post.
If it happens again tonight, I will try and cut myself off before post.
Thank you Sir, may I have another?

PS
Didn't you know that professionalism is only based on if you have an ALPA membership number? Just ask Rez, he will tell you that.
Better let those guys in the Military that they're not considered professionals.

 

[WayBack]

Of course ALPA has problems. It is an organizations made up of imperfect beings called humans.

I guarantee you that airline management sucks even worse... but you don't seem to be fair and balanced... now are you?

But you fail to see that ALPA is a thing of the past. They're not as successful as there were years ago. This is because they're be run by guys with their own interests in mind.....and the senior mainline pilots.

The problem is... some loud mouth like you and your hate buddies get on here and feed the masses with your drivel. So you think ALPA sucks.. so the ALPA guys want to make you happy and listen to you and work to make you happy.. Then the next phcuk stick de jour comes in and says ALPA sucks... make me happy. So now what? Who to please? You the new guy or the tool that whines next week.

I love you, Rez. You're so calm and very personable. That's what makes you a people person.
Of course, you'd also consider some guy who has realistic concerns of ALPAs doing, as a whiner. It's the new ALPA mantra, you listen to us, and do as we say! We know what's best for the pilot group! Reps are nothing more than politicians, they run for a seat with the best intentions, make promises they can't keep. Then when they're in, they become the typical politician. If you are truly that naive to see that, then you need a new set of spectacles. But you seem like a semi smart guy, so I know you deny it in order to try to save face with ALPA.

Classic... you are not even a professional pilot but its worth your time to come on here and trash talk ALPA.... are you serious?

I really love this quote. For you to imply that a pilot is only a professional because they are ALPA, is hysterical. You take yourself and others too seriously. I know you're the guy who lives his daily life based off the ALPA Code of Ethics. Now be honest here, I know you have done this at least once, but how many times have you been driving your car to a friends house, pick up your cell phone and call that friend. Telling him you're in range, 15 minutes out and want to know where to park. Don't lie Rez, you're the Uber Professional pilot, it will go against the code of ethics!
So if ALPA is the only professional pilot group out there, how come your ALPA represented pilots are living like 3rd world nation people? Sleeping in crew rooms, eating 1 maybe 2 meals a day. Don't say that's not ALPA's fault, because ALPA negotiated their sub par pay.
But me, the unprofessional pilot, my pay was based off experience and years flying.

USAPA is a major abortion of a union. It was based on failed fundamentals and they will be back to ALPA in less than 10 years if USAIR isn't bought. USAPA has done nothing that ALPA could not have done.

Rez, your feelings are just hurt because someone kicked your girlfriends fat friend out of the party. I don't think she's coming back either, her feelings are hurt and she can't stop crying.
I'd also like to say ALPA can't do anything USAPA could. Based on ALPA's track record, they couldn't have gotten the trigger happy pilot's job as fast as USAPA did.

Incorrect. I am sure you believe it..... prove it.

Aren't all the threats and child acts by ALPA towards it's pilot group, logged in the meetings minutes? If not, I'm shocked, because alpa is so anal on documentation of everything.
Or you you just read some of the threads on FI where guys are using the jumpseat as a leverage tool on pilots of a different pilot groups. Mainly because they're mad at something they voted on, or because they fly for an airline that didn't vote in alpa....twice.

prove it. A group of AAA pilots that hate ALPA because they agreed to binding arbitration and it didn't go thier way.. sure ALPA sucks...

Yep, because that was the sole reason they voted ALPA out. It had nothing to do with the years of BS the union handed them.
Just like accidents, it's never a single thing that causes the plane to crash. It's a long chain of mistakes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But you fail to see that ALPA is a thing of the past. They're not as successful as there were years ago. This is because they're be run by guys with their own interests in mind.....and the senior mainline pilots.

provide examples because this is a typical blanket statement.

I love you, Rez. You're so calm and very personable. That's what makes you a people person.
Of course, you'd also consider some guy who has realistic concerns of ALPAs doing, as a whiner.

You offer no realisitc concerns. Your post about ALPA are immature and unprofessional. Look at the Colgan termination thread. There is a genuine effort there and all you can do is chide ALPA. It is childish.

It's the new ALPA mantra, you listen to us, and do as we say! We know what's best for the pilot group! Reps are nothing more than politicians, they run for a seat with the best intentions, make promises they can't keep. Then when they're in, they become the typical politician. If you are truly that naive to see that, then you need a new set of spectacles. But you seem like a semi smart guy, so I know you deny it in order to try to save face with ALPA.

You are correct. When you run for office and solicit votes... you are a politician. THat is true.. yet you act like this is a concept that you've just realized... which confirms that you've done a poor job managemeing your expctations and understanding. I can't help you if you erroneously think ALPA is something it is not. You must manage your won expectations. This is something adults do.

The thing of it is.... when some is elected do you really expect them to show up to meetings and fix everything for thier pilots? How is this different from Congress? What do you suggest that it better?

I really love this quote. For you to imply that a pilot is only a professional because they are ALPA, is hysterical. You take yourself and others too seriously. I know you're the guy who lives his daily life based off the ALPA Code of Ethics. Now be honest here, I know you have done this at least once, but how many times have you been driving your car to a friends house, pick up your cell phone and call that friend. Telling him you're in range, 15 minutes out and want to know where to park. Don't lie Rez, you're the Uber Professional pilot, it will go against the code of ethics!
So if ALPA is the only professional pilot group out there, how come your ALPA represented pilots are living like 3rd world nation people? Sleeping in crew rooms, eating 1 maybe 2 meals a day. Don't say that's not ALPA's fault, because ALPA negotiated their sub par pay.
But me, the unprofessional pilot, my pay was based off experience and years flying.

It is clear that you lack an understanding of what is a profesional.

Rez, your feelings are just hurt because someone kicked your girlfriends fat friend out of the party. I don't think she's coming back either, her feelings are hurt and she can't stop crying.
I'd also like to say ALPA can't do anything USAPA could. Based on ALPA's track record, they couldn't have gotten the trigger happy pilot's job as fast as USAPA did.

Once again.. back to the immaturity and insults.... as I said this is the best you can do.. it is the max of your skillset...

Aren't all the threats and child acts by ALPA towards it's pilot group, logged in the meetings minutes? If not, I'm shocked, because alpa is so anal on documentation of everything.
Or you you just read some of the threads on FI where guys are using the jumpseat as a leverage tool on pilots of a different pilot groups. Mainly because they're mad at something they voted on, or because they fly for an airline that didn't vote in alpa....twice.

Then access the docs and show what you say to be true.

Yep, because that was the sole reason they voted ALPA out. It had nothing to do with the years of BS the union handed them.
Just like accidents, it's never a single thing that causes the plane to crash. It's a long chain of mistakes.

If USAPA is the better choice you should be able to easily demonstrate that.... however, I think you'll just stick with what you do best... crybaby victim status and name calling.... Again.. you aren't even an ALPA pilot, no dog in the fight, yet you are on here constantly... why?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Alright Wayback, then here's your chance.

What would you do differently that ALPA isn't doing that would IMPROVE the profession and QOL of airline pilots? I'm not looking for an ALPA bash-fest, but some real, realistic, practical and ACTIONABLE solutions. I'll give you some basic questions, but feel free to add on more:

1)What would you about Flight and Duty time regs that we all acknowledge need to be revised?

2)What (or how) would you solve the 'race to the bottom', regarding pay scales?

3)How would you handle the scope issues between mainline and contract carriers, to be fair to both sides?

Just remember, this isn't meant to be a bash of ALPA, this is how would YOU handle these and other issues if ALPA didn't exist.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[WayBack]

you aren't even an ALPA pilot, no dog in the fight, yet you are on here constantly... why?

Rez, sorry I am going to have to get back to you later. My son has an upset stomach and it smells like he just took a great big ALPA in his diaper. I gotta go change him. I'll get back you later, tootles!