Question for CFI's: Students that just dont get it

[Crossky]

I'm with those who say break it to him in person, with a respectful and clear message, that he's not cut out to be a pilot. He obviously doesn't have the right stuff, I'm not big on stereotyping what it takes to be a pilot, but it seems like whatever it is, he doesn't have it. Recommend that he take up a different hobby. It's a hard thing to do, but the right thing to do. I had five older students who weren't making much progress at all (one soloed). Three of them stopped on their own and I took another job, but I wish I had talked to the other two.

I wish you courage and peace.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Make him a FAIP.

 

[bizijet]

Everybody knows what it takes to be a pilot. Big Ray Ban sunglasses, A huge watch, and a yearning for barbque alcohol.

 

[convair007]

I had a student, didn't help that it was my second one ever, that after two years of training, had 120 hrs. He was nowhere near solo. I had tried every possible approach I could think of with this guy and yet he couldn't get it. Three times throughout his training, I sat him down and told him where he was at in his training and that flying possibly was not for him. I even had him fly with another instructor. After that particular flight the instructor came to me and said the student was just plain dangerous. He told me to let him fly with the student before I signed him off for solo. Like I said, I was new and this was an experienced instructor.

After about a year of flying with this student we went to another local airport that we had gone to several times before. We were doing touch and go's on 9-27. We landed long so I told him to make a full stop and taxi back. He proceeded to the end of 9 and turned around for departure (on 27). He even made his call out for departing runway 9. I told him to not to depart, and then told him to figure out why I said that. It took 20 minutes, and I finally had to tell him why.

After that, I realized that was never going to work. Again, I sat him down and tried to explain where he was in his training and maybe flying wasn't for him. He kept flying, I admire him for his determination, but after each lesson I felt extremely bad about taking his money.

Finally, I left to go on to a new job and I think he went on to fly at a busier airport.

I definately learned a lot from flying with him though.

 

[philo beddoe]

Retention of the basics is the main go/no-go part of deciding whether one should become a pilot. If he can't retain engine-out procedures at the pace of an average human being, then flying is not for him. While you might feel like it is not "your place" to crush his dream, you are probably saving his life. We do not need more of this type of person putting our industry in the public view with an accident. Or flying into the Washington TFR and giving another reason for them to ban GA for a 100-mile radius. Even if you get him to proficiency, you have no means whatsoever to ascertain if he will retain the skills for the period beginning after his checkride. What about 12 months down the road when he has had no dual since? That is why retention is more important than everything else. Without retention, he will turn into a low-time student whenever he gets 'stale', without someone else spoon-feeding him.

I have noticed that many brilliant people make substandard pilots. They are creative, easily distracted, and easily bored. They often like to mull over problems and look for perfect solutions, rather than jsut get the job done. Flying is not for everyone, no matter what they like to say in the magazines.

Do this man a huge favor and politely tell him that he should focus his efforts elsewhere. You are probably saving lives if you do so.

 

[philo beddoe]

Perhaps if you make any progress with him you can just prep the private ride (teach to the test) when it seems he meets standards in all areas.

For a student like this, this is the most dangerous approach possible. It relies heavily on rote learning, which is this student's weakest asset. This student needs correlation more than most others do.

 

[convair007]

Retention of the basics is the main go/no-go part of deciding whether one should become a pilot. If he can't retain engine-out procedures at the pace of an average human being, then flying is not for him. While you might feel like it is not "your place" to crush his dream, you are probably saving his life. We do not need more of this type of person putting our industry in the public view with an accident. Or flying into the Washington TFR and giving another reason for them to ban GA for a 100-mile radius. Even if you get him to proficiency, you have no means whatsoever to ascertain if he will retain the skills for the period beginning after his checkride. What about 12 months down the road when he has had no dual since? That is why retention is more important than everything else. Without retention, he will turn into a low-time student whenever he gets 'stale', without someone else spoon-feeding him.

I have noticed that many brilliant people make substandard pilots. They are creative, easily distracted, and easily bored. They often like to mull over problems and look for perfect solutions, rather than jsut get the job done. Flying is not for everyone, no matter what they like to say in the magazines.

Do this man a huge favor and politely tell him that he should focus his efforts elsewhere. You are probably saving lives if you do so.

This was about 1.5 years ago. No one at the flight school that I worked for has heard from him since I left. I'm pretty sure he gave up on it.

 

[navigator72]

I met this lady who I took for a scenic flight and she told me she was a student pilot with 800 hours. Once my initial shock wore off I asked why and she told me that she just loved to go flying with her instructor and was kind of nervous to solo. I told her she could fly the plane once airborne and she flew beautifully. Some people just like to fly.

Don't give up on this dude.

 

[EagleRJ]

There IS such a thing as a person who just isn't wired to be a pilot.

I had a student who had been handed off from CFI to CFI many times, and it wasn't because they were getting hired away! No information retention, no common sense in the air or on the ground, no situational awareness, etc, etc. He spent more than $11,000 getting his Private, and became fairly famous for the way he would keep coming back for more, even though it was obvious the profession wasn't for him. Trying to teach him was absolutely horrible.

He eventually left the school, and the next time I heard his name, it was in an NTSB report. He took a whole King Air of passengers with him, too.

It's a rare occasion, but your ethical responsibilities as a CFI may occasionally include removing someone from training. It's true that they may just go down the street to the next FBO, but in extreme cases, involvement of the local FSDO may be warranted. Believe me that there is such a thing as someone who can never be a safe pilot! Recognizing that may save their life, as well as those of others.

 

[C425Driver]

I had two students who weren't progressing.


The first student just seemed like he hit a wall and wasn't retaining much from the previous lesson. He seemed more and more stressed about flying each day. I told him that the next lesson would be run by him. Whether he wanted to go sightseeing or practice GRM and stalls was his decision. He chose to go sightseeing and he truly enjoyed himself. He became more relaxed with the airplane and he soloed two lessons after that. He just needed a reminder of how much fun flying could be.

The other student was not preparing for his lessons. After a while it became apparent that he was doing this for the bragging rights - He loved to tell everyone he was a "Pilot". I started to play on his motivations - talking about why he needed certain skills for when he took his friends flying and that seemed to work for him.

Hope that helps. Don't give up on him!

C425Driver

 

[convair007]

Well, I've moved on to a on demand freight company flying Convair 640's. I'm done instructing for now.

 

[hydroflyer]

I have seen a couple of students at the flight school I was at who took a very long time to get their private. First thing you may want to do is to talk with this student about the amount of time it is taking, and how you think it may take a lot longer to complete the certificate. Be honest about what you are seeing and see if he still wants to pursue it. Make sure he understands the potential financial cost and time it could take. If he has a masters in something else, ask him how he would study for that. What methods of retention did he use and can they be applied to flying? Another thought would be having him get a flight simulator for his computer to practice with at home. He would be able to do more repetitions and see what happens when a mistake is made. At the rate he is learning, spending a grand or so for a good home computer set-up may be a cost-effective solution for him. Maybe he'd even decide that he would be content with the occasional real-world flight with an instructor, but spend other time with the flight simulator. Just a couple of thoughts.