PSA offered 900's

[jetfo]

Just remember kids, US Airways is now posting profits. You've all seen what the CLT terminal has looked like this last year. Packed wall to wall with paying passengers. There is absolutely no reason why a respectable -900 payrate can't be developed.

Just because they are filling the airplanes doesn't mean they are making a profit! As I said before, US Airways is not out of the woods just yet!

The lean fall and winter season is not far away and oil is still hovering around $72 a barrel.

Longer term, you're right, with continued profitability a respectable 900 payrate should be developed.

 

[ex j-41]

Well i would rather be on the street. Yes that is right. I have worked too hard at this career to make so little. I would rather the whole company shuts down and mesa takes the flying. I would rather be back flight instructing making the same amount of money, being home every night, eating good food, then doing this crap for $340/week. Yes having integrity may cost me my job but what value is this job if this is what it has come to?

 

[ex j-41]

Just because they are filling the airplanes doesn't mean they are making a profit! As I said before, US Airways is not out of the woods just yet!

The lean fall and winter season is not far away and oil is still hovering around $72 a barrel.

Longer term, you're right, with continued profitability a respectable 900 payrate should be developed.

If management cannot make money filling up airplanes is it our responsibility to subsidize the ticket prices with our salary's? Get real!
If they cannot make a profit paying me $340/week then they need to find another profession where they can be successful. Parker is interested in low low employee wages. That is how he will make the airline profitable. Very short term thinking. And by the way the low 900 rates would be for 3 if not 5 years till we get a rate negotiated. By then they will have Mesa lined up already to take our place. Either way we lose. Better now then 5 years from now.

 

[jetfo]

What makes you think we don't have any leverage? If mesa gets the jets then Mesa gets some of the profit. US Aiways is in the business of flying people from A to B. Why get someone else to do the job for you when it is your name on the airplanes?
Nothing says that we cannot negotiate a fair wage for the airplanes. If we just sign on the bottom line it means that we did not "Negotiate" at all. They gave us a starting point and it is up to us to make it better. Just blindly signing is like being FRENCH and giving up! Your not french are you?

No, more scandinavian actually, and I never suggested that the PSA pilot group not try to obtain the best deal they can!

Second, I don't believe we have very much "leverage," as you put it. You ask, "why get someone else to do the job when it's your name on the airplane?". Well, rightly or wrongly, isn't that what most every carrier using feeders is doing?

Look at even Frontier, they should and could have kept the CRJ700 flying in house. Instead they contracted it out to Horizon.

Things have been moving away from the wholly owned concept for years. The only carriers remaining that have wholly owned regionals are US Airways, Delta (and not much longer), Alaska and American. Both Northwest and Continental got out of the wholly owned concept and are in the process of diversifying their feed, and Delta is following suit.

The flying is going to go to the most competitive bidder, the only thing any carrier can do is to show better performance and maybe they will get a small premium for that.

I won't regurgitate what I have already written on the other PSA thread, but all you have to do to look at some recent history like ACA, Air Wisconsin, Comair, ExpressJet, TransStates, etc. Need I go on to show that there is no "leverage" in a market that has other carriers willing to do the flying for less.

Based on my research, PSA would be flying the 900s for industry average pay or slighly more under the present proposal.

Should they get more for flying a larger aircraft, sure! Are they, or any other carrier going to pay their pilots significantly more when established industry average pay for the 100 seat EMB190 is the same or only slightly more, I doubt it.

 

[jetfo]

Well i would rather be on the street. Yes that is right. I have worked too hard at this career to make so little. I would rather the whole company shuts down and mesa takes the flying. I would rather be back flight instructing making the same amount of money, being home every night, eating good food, then doing this crap for $340/week. Yes having integrity may cost me my job but what value is this job if this is what it has come to?

Well, if you would rather be on the street, do you think you should drag you other friends at PSA down along with you?

Whether first year pay at PSA of $21.85 and hour is appropriate to to fly a CRJ200/700 and possibly a 900 doesn't matter.

You have the right to work there at that rate and if you don't like it you can leave. I won't debate the unfortunate realities of the current aviation market, but there are plenty of pilots out there that can't wait to take your place if you leave.

$21.85, although pathetic, is still $2.85 more then some other carriers are paying!

By the way, as a pilot on first year pay at PSA, you are obviously on probation and don't even have a vote on the matter.

 

[jetfo]

If management cannot make money filling up airplanes is it our responsibility to subsidize the ticket prices with our salary's? Get real!
If they cannot make a profit paying me $340/week then they need to find another profession where they can be successful. Parker is interested in low low employee wages. That is how he will make the airline profitable. Very short term thinking. And by the way the low 900 rates would be for 3 if not 5 years till we get a rate negotiated. By then they will have Mesa lined up already to take our place. Either way we lose. Better now then 5 years from now.

I think most of your friends at PSA would agree that if they will lose the flying to Mesa, better 5 years from now than today!

By then, hopefully they and you will have moved on.

As far as the airline employees subsidizing the ticket prices, get real, that has been happening to everyone in the industry!

Is is right, no and so what?

 

[PropPiedmont]

The next step for PSA negotiations will go somewhat like this:

Management will say, "If the PSA pilot group doesn't agree to fly the -900 at current payrates then that is just fine."

Next they'll say, "Due to current economic conditions and the continued rise in the price of oil, we have determined that operating a fleet of 50 seat RJs is no longer economically viable. Starting next month PSA will begin returning CRJ 200s to the lessor."

And lastly, "The CRJ-900 flying is still available for PSA to secure. In order to prevent the furlough of half of our pilot group it is strongly recommended that we bid on this flying at our current rates. Your job security and futures are in your own hands, we know you will do what you think is right and best for the pilot group as a whole."

 

[jetfo]

The next step for PSA negotiations will go somewhat like this:

Management will say, "If the PSA pilot group doesn't agree to fly the -900 at current payrates then that is just fine."

Next they'll say, "Due to current economic conditions and the continued rise in the price of oil, we have determined that operating a fleet of 50 seat RJs is no longer economically viable. Starting next month PSA will begin returning CRJ 200s to the lessor."

And lastly, "The CRJ-900 flying is still available for PSA to secure. In order to prevent the furlough of half of our pilot group it is strongly recommended that we bid on this flying at our current rates. Your job security and futures are in your own hands, we know you will do what you think is right and best for the pilot group as a whole."

That's very astute. That's probably exactly what is going to happen!

 

[jayme]

So when do the leases on the 50s expire? I'm asking you jetfo and PropPiedmont.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

That's a good question. I imagine no one here knows the answer, the 49 aircraft fleet is in the hands of several lessors including a few aircraft that are owned by Airways. During the 2nd bankruptcy the paper was shifting very quickly and data tags were changing.

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

Where is the proof that PSA has even been offered 900's? I haven't heard anything about AWAC turning down 900's. Last I heard is that our company wanted to swap out 50 seaters for 900's if we had a home for the 200's. That is why we are really working hard on getting the Midwest flying.

 

[nethan]

Where is the proof that PSA has even been offered 900's? I haven't heard anything about AWAC turning down 900's. Last I heard is that our company wanted to swap out 50 seaters for 900's if we had a home for the 200's. That is why we are really working hard on getting the Midwest flying.

I would imgine that by "our company" you are a AWAC guy your self? Either way, it is official. I haven't seen anything posted outside the internal company website, but our MEC has posted an offical proposal as well as a memo from Scott Kirby with details of the plans. It's real. AWAC wasn't offered anything as of now.

 

[PropPiedmont]

So when do the leases on the 50s expire? I'm asking you jetfo and PropPiedmont.

10 of the CRJ 200s can be returned without penalty. This was part of the agreement between GECAS and US Airways before exiting the last bankruptcy. I believe there was a deadline set that returns must me done by and I'll have to look it up. Off the top of my head I want to say it was by the summer of 2006.

 

[ex j-41]

The next step for PSA negotiations will go somewhat like this:

Management will say, "If the PSA pilot group doesn't agree to fly the -900 at current payrates then that is just fine."

Next they'll say, "Due to current economic conditions and the continued rise in the price of oil, we have determined that operating a fleet of 50 seat RJs is no longer economically viable. Starting next month PSA will begin returning CRJ 200s to the lessor."

And lastly, "The CRJ-900 flying is still available for PSA to secure. In order to prevent the furlough of half of our pilot group it is strongly recommended that we bid on this flying at our current rates. Your job security and futures are in your own hands, we know you will do what you think is right and best for the pilot group as a whole."

Did you know that Bombardier is expanding the CRJ 900 so it will sit 100 passengers? We might even get those airplanes. The agreement offered to us was for CRJ 900's, did not say anything about the amount of passengers we will carry. So we could be flying 100 people not just 90. ALPA needs to have language that states that our pay is based on airplane type AND number of passengers carried.

Let PSA return their airplanes to the lessor...They won't be able to finance another airplane again. Not only that but Parker said himself that 50 seat airplanes are impossible to get rid of. Looks like flying them is better than them sitting in the desert while still making payments. We have ground to stand on, grow a spine and stand up for whats right!

 

[ex j-41]

10 of the CRJ 200s can be returned without penalty. This was part of the agreement between GECAS and US Airways before exiting the last bankruptcy. I believe there was a deadline set that returns must me done by and I'll have to look it up. Off the top of my head I want to say it was by the summer of 2006.

Yes no penalty if traded on 700's.

 

[BeachBummer]

Express Jet will do the flying for psa under usa.....

 

[Clipper_Aurora]

Parker wants the 200's gone, little ole PSA will be gone as well if no jets arrive to expand and make it a real player in this game, we should feel lucky that Parker and boys want to spend the money on the airframes and keep it in house, instead of sending it somewhere else. 1......1 year we have to fly those things for the same cash and then it is contract time, don't you get it....give a little now, take alot later when PSA is painted on the planes and in the air.....WAIT WAIT I know what your going to say (crying voice) "I have already given a little" if you don't like it LEAVE!

Not like it really matters to anyone but once we decline the jets, I leave and many other senior FO's leave and all you big time Captains keep performing IOE flights with your 600-700 hour boys and girls, enjoy

 

[jayme]

I could tell you a thing or two about that line of reasoning...

18 month agreement? 35 months and counting here at SkyWest!

 

[ex j-41]

What is this One Year stuff? The memo said that the pay change will happen when our contract expires. 2009. 2011 if management stalls contract talks.

What is to stop Parker from getting rid of the 200's anyway? Then we are in exactly the same spot but flying bigger airplanes for low pay.
Just with more slotted J4J's. So we all just might move back in seniority.
We need guarentees. Better Hotels, better QOL, better schedules, not like the 7hr, 3 day i start tomorrow. Then we will talk!

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

Well, I just listened to the PSA code-a-phone. Its true, you were offered 900's. Well there goes the 900 pay scale. If you guys accept those aircraft under your current payscales, you will be no better than Mesa. Grow Balls and if it goes to a vote, vote NO! AWAC doesn't want them unless we get the BAE-146 payscale moved over, please set the bar high.