Pro's & con's of a union

[Publishers]

post

Excellent post Surplus as to the good and the bad.

I think in the case of the current situation it is easy to see what happens in a downturn. Here the independant union has an advantage with the no national ajenda and focus on a particular company

 

[RocketRob]

Comparing in house unions to ALPA is a no brainer. We (CAL&XJET) used to have the IACP and are now ALPA. The IACP was ok and better than no union but they couldn't come close the the resources that ALPA has provided. We are now in negotiations and hope to make everyone proud (except management of course ) and I've been told over and over by our higher up's about how much better everything is for our negotaitors. They have top-notch lawyer's, benefits/retirement specialists, and medical help. Also ALPA Policical Action Commitee has worked hard to fight for all airline pilots in D.C.

 

[Slim]

If you are to form an independent union, consider the start up costs.

I have posted on this several times. If a pilot group decides to start their own independent union, they need to consider the cost of starting up, then the monthly costs of running same.

I believe Comair would need a group of 3,000-3,500 pilots to make an independent union viable. That can't happen today. If Comair and ASA joined together today, an independent union may be viable.

I am a current member of ALPA and a former member of an independent union.

Good luck and fly safe!

 

[surplus1]

If you are to form an independent union, consider the start up costs.

I have posted on this several times. If a pilot group decides to start their own independent union, they need to consider the cost of starting up, then the monthly costs of running same.

I believe Comair would need a group of 3,000-3,500 pilots to make an independent union viable. That can't happen today. If Comair and ASA joined together today, an independent union may be viable.

I am a current member of ALPA and a former member of an independent union.

Good luck and fly safe!

I agree that startup costs are an important consideration. I disagree strongly that Comair or any other group would need 3,000 pilots or more to make an independent union viable.

SWAPA, IPA and NPA (as well as others) were all started with far less than 3,000 members and have been quite successful.

What is required is strong and capable leaders and a united group of pilots. There is some number of minimum members that equates to adequate funding, but it is far less than 3,000. Keep in mind that the cost structure of an ALPA does not have to be emulated for success.

The current dues of CMR pilots, if allocated 100% to running a CMR specific union, are more than adequate.

Please don't misunderstand, I am NOT advocating an independent union for Comair (at this time), I'm only saying that it would definitely be viable from a financial point of view.

In my opinion, the key ingredient is qualified leadership and motivation of the group, not money.

 

[Slim]

I'm not advocating a split from ALPA at this time!

The numbers I used were supplied by our former MEC chairman in early 1998. I attempted to adjust for (1) inflation, (2) the payscale then vs. the payscale now, and (3) the number of pilots at Comair and ASA.

I agree with your observation concerning motivated and qualified leadership. That's essential, along with the money.

SWAPA and IPA are not fair comparisons. They fly larger equipment with higher rates of pay. Thus, the dues percentage they pay monthly yields more dollars per pilot than our rates would.

The NPA hasn't been around as long as the SWAPA, IPA, APA, ALPA, etc. Their success over the long term hasn't been assesed. However, I admire their effort to keep their junior pilots employed by agreeing to temporary pay cuts post September 11.