Profiling

[SkyBoy1981]

No they didnt get in airplanes but they did get into boats and travel a great distance to kill muslims. Many more muslims than you can ever imagine.

You still didn't answer my questions, chief....so I will ask them again. What if the tables were turned and this situation were the other way around? What if we had a group of "radical Americans" who were commiting random acts of terror against Muslims? And no, don't feed me this "but you already are" bullsh!t. We aren't planting bombs on busses and we aren't running airplanes into office buildings for the purpose of causing fear and terror among the innocent people. Do you think the muslim community would be as tolerant and accepting of what has happened as Americans have been if we were the ones who commited these acts? Do you think they would refrain from profiling any and all Americans? Do you think they would be afraid to hold Americans at gunpoint in an airport security line and make us strip down to nothing in fear that it might offend us? I don't think so, and if you do then you need to wake up and smell the house burning down.

 

[Flyer1015]

Another thing to consider is that the term 'terrorism' is heavily misunderstood/misused by people.

According to dictionary.com, which uses the The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language and the Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary , terrorism is defined as:

" The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. "


Look at that definition again.


The unlawful use or threatened use of force (US military action in Iraq) or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies (US forcing Iraqis to become democratic), often for ideological or political reasons (doing it for our own Bush-led political reasons... you name it, oil, Israel's security, finishing a war is daddy started, etc)

By that definition, the war in Iraq can be classified as terrorism...

But is it? Of course not! So, it's ALWAYS depending on how YOU interpret it.

And keep in mind with those radical muslim terrorists, they are terrorists to US. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.... whether the IRA or a radical muslim terrorist.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You liberals just never stop thinking do you? You are so full of definitions and technicalities, yet I find it utterly amazing that you have absolutely no common sense. Liberals and lawyers will be the downfall of our country.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

And by the way, you didn't answer my questions either.

 

[Murphy]

I was just part of a group of 4 that flew out of DCA in Air Force blues. 2 out of the 4 of us got the body cavity search by TSA. I escaped the pleasure but got to listen to other passengers walk by me shaking their heads in disbelief and saying how they couldn't believe they were doing this to people in uniform.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I feel for you Murphy. It really is ridiculous to see the people who fight for our freedom have to go through such nonsense.

Flyer1015, you keep detouring the topic with references to the war in Iraq (as you liberals are known for doing). The topic is profiling...lets stick with that.

 

[Flyer1015]

You still didn't answer my questions, chief....so I will ask them again. What if the tables were turned and this situation were the other way around? What if we had a group of "radical Americans" who were commiting random acts of terror against Muslims? And no, don't feed me this "but you already are" bullsh!t. We aren't planting bombs on busses and we aren't running airplanes into office buildings for the purpose of causing fear and terror among the innocent people. Do you think the muslim community would be as tolerant and accepting of what has happened as Americans have been if we were the ones who commited these acts? Do you think they would refrain from profiling any and all Americans? Do you think they would be afraid to hold Americans at gunpoint in an airport security line and make us strip down to nothing in fear that it might offend us? I don't think so, and if you do then you need to wake up and smell the house burning down.

I honestly don't know how it would be the other way around. If we were living in Afghanistan, and we did terrorist acts against them, then we probably would be profiled at gunpoint.

*BUT* that's due to the fact that you have no rights under the Taliban rule. An official government form was non-existent under their rule.

We here at America have a constitution, and a bill of rights that need to be honored for our people living here. As soon as you start to discriminate (profile) we go back on everything people have fought for in this country.

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

But nope... President Bush, and the conservatives, in their never-ending pursuit to circumvent the constitution, invent the term "Enemy Combatant" and hold him and others giving them no rights.

We are at war with terror. We are at war with Iraq (and were at Afghanistan)... ANYONE caputred in this WAR of terror is a prisoner of WAR. But nope, Bush circumvents the constitution by calling them "enemy combatants," and does not hold them to geneva conventions and the standards set out for prisoners of war.

I'm sorry, but it will be the conservatives who will be our downfall. They have already divided the world with their current actions, and continue to make America more and more hated all across the world... leading to a more dangerous environment for all of us.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I honestly don't know how it would be the other way around. If we were living in Afghanistan, and we did terrorist acts against them, then we probably would be profiled at gunpoint.

dang right we would.

We here at America have a constitution, and a bill of rights that need to be honored for our people living here. As soon as you start to discriminate (profile) we go back on everything people have fought for in this country.

While I have the utmost respect for these documents, they were created during a time when people had morals and common sense. You see, back then people didn't want to blow themselves up on busses for the sole purpose of causing death and destruction to innocent people. These were not issues that had to be dealt with back then. Thanks to lawyers, and you liberals, nothing can be taken for granted anymore. Everything has to be spelled out, word for word. Pretty soon we will need to create documents for people explaining to them that pants go on one leg at a time, and you should walk one foot in front of the other. Oh, and don't forget to breath while you're at it.

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

Good point, there's needs to be much more scruitiny on who is becomming citizens in our country. There's no reason that people should be allowed to come over with the intent of causing us harm and manage to become a US citizen. There needs to be ways to filter these people out.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Furthermore, the Constitution was created to protect those who are innocent. What sickens me is that in today's world it seems to be used more to protect the guilty.

 

[Flyer1015]

Skyboy,

I understand exactly where you're coming from. I respect your opinion, and understand why you feel that way.

But, as always in politics, there are always different sides that people take. We happen to be on different sides


Murphy,

Sorry about your ordeal. I already stated my views about the stupid TSA organization. You can scroll back to read if you'd like. I think it's completely unacceptable to harass flight / cabin crews as they currently are. And of course, they 'conveniently' let pass the mechanics, cleaners, etc. etc.

 

[kmox29]

No other country in the world has oppressed the middle east as bad as the US has in the last 40-50 years. It's about time we admit the root of terror. Fess up to the injustices.

My next door neighbor from Iraq would disagree with you. But I am sure you have some obscure point to prove HIM even wrong. Maybe I should put him in touch with you so you could convince him the US government is a form of terrorism and how we are forcing a terrible lifestyle on the Iraqi people.

Anyhow, we should still be able to profile (my original thread).

 

[Sir Humpalot]

Skyboy,

I will answer your mundane question. Try to think and absorb it in before you start opening your flap. If americans hijacked airplanes and crashed it into buildings, then americans will be profiled by countries who dont value freedom as much as america does. There were saudis who hijacked that airplane and yet america is in bed with them. Many muslims are not saudi, nor do they care to be. Muslims are a great diverse of people, more diverse than christians are. They come from all walks of life and many of my friends are white americans who converted to islam. How would you profile them? How would you profile Padilla? I spoke to the head of the TSA in the western region and he talked about how profiling was wrong. Yes, the head of the TSA spoke about it and i am sure he knows more than you.

But if we are overseas and giving people that so called FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, then why are we taking away people's right here. AS i said earlier, democracy through hypocricy. Its easy for you to say profile cuz you are the one who wants to take away people's rights, the oppressor of so many, but if anyone wants to take away your rights (guns, free speech,..etc), i bet you will be the one biatchin.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

The american government is a hypocritical organization that wants to protect its elitist status. They want to control as many countries that they can and in the process use any means. We supported Saddam, General Pinochet, Noriega, the shah of Iran, and countless other dictators but as soon as they upset big bad america, we overthrew them.

If we support democracy so much, why is it that we didnt recognize the democratically elected Islamic party in Algeria? DEMOCRACY THROUGH HYPOCRICY.

We support Israel, a huge violator of human rights and UN resolutions (General Assembly Resolution 194, Security Council Resolution 242, Security Council Resolution 446, General Assembly Resolution 3236) but yet we dont invade israel? Why is that,... cuz america is Israel's Biatch. Yet, you talk about people's rights in Iraq like America invented human rights. There is a reason why people dont like the american government and the hypocrites that defend it.

I also fought in the first gulf war and i have served my country, there is absolutely no reason why i or any muslim should be profiled because of our religion. As far as i know, the constitution and our amendments didnt change after 911.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I spoke to the head of the TSA in the western region and he talked about how profiling was wrong. Yes, the head of the TSA spoke about it and i am sure he knows more than you..

Oh, the head of the prized TSA said that huh? Then it must certainly be true, after all there is an agency that has everything figured out.

I said nothing about profiling islamic Americans. The profile should be those who are not citizens of our country, male, of middle eastern descent, who aren't traveling with their families and such. I said nothing about profiling each and every islamic individual.

Common sense says, in order to prevent another 9/11 type attack, we have to think of ways we could have prevented the last one. The way I see it if more detailed security screening had been done to the profile of individual that I listed above on 9/11 (which fits the profile of the majority of Al Quaeda), the attacks very well may not have happened. But since that is such a violation of rights, and you are the educated liberal here, please tell me in your infinite wisdom what is a better solution to prevent such an attack from happening again?

I think the bottom line here is that we can only agree to disagree. As Flyer said, you have your views and I have mine.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

But nope... President Bush, and the conservatives, in their never-ending pursuit to circumvent the constitution, invent the term "Enemy Combatant" and hold him and others giving them no rights.

Since you presumably are a pilot, you probably have a passport close at hand. Read the first few pages. You become an enemy combatant, you forfiet your citizenship. BTW, enemy combatant is a rather old term defined in the Geneva Convention and probably goes back much further than that. Not invented by Bush. Here is a test for you:

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH

Is your blood pressure up now? Remember Flyer1015, when you hate someone they own you.