Profiling

[gran_fan]

Details details

"Ever wonder why El Al has NEVER had a hijacking? Think maybe it's because they DO profile?"

El al B-707 was kidnapped/hijacked once to algiria in 1968.
and yes, the terrorists were all Middle Eastern men in their 20's or 30's.....
its about time TSA and all the airlines will start profiling.
its working for the israelis, should work just fine here and save the next 9/11.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I wonder if dodgeball will ever be put back in schools.

We used to call it "smear the queer" Before there was P.C. issues. But that was the '70s
Oh well back to your regularly scheduled bitching!
PBR

 

[Flyer1015]

Assuming you are male (for sake of example) - last time you saw the doctor did you get a breast cancer exam? You are male, you didn't get the test. Congratulations, you have just been profiled. My guess is, you don't complain much about that. OTOH, a female gets the test. Doesn't mean that she has it, but those odds are much higher than yours. It's not about accusing her of having the disease, it is about having the courage and determination to be adult about the realities of the world. Not about living in some egalitarian dreamworld where past experiences and history are blithely dismissed, and absolutely no one must be inconvenienced or offended.

There is a fine line between 'profiling' for breast cancer in women and profiling all people (brown) who look anything close to middle eastern. Besides, that's a bad analogy, because even women choose to have a breat exam (it's an option, not a law).

and save the next 9/11.

We have already closed the barn door after the horse left. In fact, we've reallly closed that door!

Any passenger(s) that try anything stupid in an airplane will have the living sh*t beat out of them by others.

Our concern should be more towards better security screening of baggage, and closing DUMB loopholes in the aviation system. "Sorry sir, you can't take that plastic fork and knife with you through this checkpoint... " WTF?!? There's Burger King right inside the terminal where you could get that stuff.

Another loophole: NOT matching the passenger name on the boarding pass and the actual passenger when boarding the airplane. Theoretically, once you're through the airport security, you can get on any flight as long as you have a boarding pass, even if it's under someone else's name.

And again, punishing the over $1 billion muslims in the world simply due to the actions of a few of them is crazy. If you're gonna profile them, then why stop there? It's already been shown that, proportionately, there are more black people incarcerated than white people for various crimes. Should we start profiling them (cough cough.. LAPD.. cough)?

The answer is no.

It isn't fair to start punishing an entire race of people because a couple of them do crazy stuff. Btw, how did that Japanese internment camp idea work out?

 

[kmox29]

We used to call it "smear the queer" Before there was P.C. issues. But that was the '70s
PBR

FYI, I laughed my arse off at that because even in the '90s, we called it that. Just had to do it under your breath. I am still laughing at it now, but I have been drinking a lot of Captain Morgan/Cokes tonight

 

[Black Water Dog]

There is a fine line between 'profiling' for breast cancer in women and profiling all people (brown) who look anything close to middle eastern. Besides, that's a bad analogy, because even women choose to have a breat exam (it's an option, not a law).

...

Our concern should be more towards better security screening of baggage, and closing DUMB loopholes in the aviation system. "Sorry sir, you can't take that plastic fork and knife with you through this checkpoint... " WTF?!? There's Burger King right inside the terminal where you could get that stuff.

... Btw, how did that Japanese internment camp idea work out?

The medical example is no fine line at all - obseved outcomes, sensible precaution. Magic bullet? No, the best you can hope for is to increase the odds of detection.

On the TSA stuff, I would agree with you. The government created a monster that seems to thrive on idiocy. But then again, their goal seems to be reassuring the travelling public more than being effective. Airline management is probably deeply regretting turning over this function to the government.

As to the Japanese internment, I would have to say that the idea was necessary at the time. Since there were no problems with sabotage along the west coast during those years it appears to have been very effective. Easy to second guess 60+ years later, especially since you can't prove a negative.

 

[Flyer1015]

The medical example is no fine line at all - obseved outcomes, sensible precaution. Magic bullet? No, the best you can hope for is to increase the odds of detection.

On the TSA stuff, I would agree with you. The government created a monster that seems to thrive on idiocy. But then again, their goal seems to be reassuring the travelling public more than being effective. Airline management is probably deeply regretting turning over this function to the government.

As to the Japanese internment, I would have to say that the idea was necessary at the time. Since there were no problems with sabotage along the west coast during those years it appears to have been very effective. Easy to second guess 60+ years later, especially since you can't prove a negative.

We're on the same page with the TSA, at least we agree on something.

We only encourage women to get breast examinations. There is no forcing them. It is by choice. But by profiling all middle-eastern-looking people, you are FORCING them against their choice, and humiliating them because someone else of the same skin color bombed something earlier. It's completely unjustifiable.

Japanese internment... "necessary" at the time? How so? After the Pearl Harbor attacks, did the Japanese people living here even plan anything bad? No. The bombings were the result of the decision of the Japanese Armed forces (government).

And then of course, the question is, "Is it ever okay to kill innocent civilians during war?" Most would answer no. But, we dropped two nuclear bombs over Japan... wiping out entire cities. The way I see it, if a civilian picks up a gun or starts throwing rocks at you, that civilian is then a 'threat.' Threats should be neutralized. But everyday people living their everyday lives didn't deserve to die in those atomic bombs.

We can say all we want about freedom values that we belive in, but believe it, the Japanese will never forget or forgive what happened a few decades ago (even though they might pretend to). Same goes for black people, who weren't treated fairly their rights until the '60s. We can act like everything is peachy, but our history has been tainted.

What's really sad? These al-Qaeda soldiers kill our American soldiers with weapons that WE gave them in the '80s to fight against the Russians. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Humph. Supposedly, the US government (CIA) actually worked with bin Laden forces way back in the 80s. Our foreign policy and course of action in the last 30 years or so has helped create these vicious terrorist monsters.

And now, we are willing to profile (and hence, humiliate, and 'punish') brown colored people due largely to the failure of our government's policies since the last thiry years? That's sad....

Spreading democracy in the middle east? Good luck with that. How would you feel if tomorrow, China invaded us saying that we will have to follow communism (their belief)? Wouldn't you fight back? And I think that's exactly what the Iraqi insurgents are doing now. Sadly, our boys in Iraq continue to pay the price for the screw ups of this administration.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

Yeah, lets profile so that we can capture all terrorists and lock them up. I never met so many immature people till i started coming on this thread. Here are some facts for you people (remember these are facts).

1. Christians have killed more people in the name of religion than anyone else (slavery, genocide of native americans, imperialism, crusades).

2. Christians commit more molestations than anyone else.

3. The western world has raped and destroyed more cultures than anyone group of people.

NOw are all christians bad? NO Are all christians held liable for the actions of the few? NO So why do you treat other religions and people inferior for your political cause?

I am sad to see that people are still racists toward african americans and others to this day. As pilots we need to grow up and destroy the racism that is fostered to this day.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

How can people still say that the Japanese internment camps are necessary? This might come as a surprise but there were more German spies in america than japanese but we didnt throw the German-Americans into camps for the simple reason that they were white anglo-saxons.

Historians have proved over and over again that there was severe racism in WWII with the Japanese-americans. So how could you sit here and say that it was necessary. I am sure you think that slavery was necessary also dont you? I am also sure that you thought this land belonged to white anglo-saxons?

 

[Flyer1015]

Yeah, lets profile so that we can capture all terrorists and lock them up. I never met so many immature people till i started coming on this thread. Here are some facts for you people (remember these are facts).

1. Christians have killed more people in the name of religion than anyone else (slavery, genocide of native americans, imperialism, crusades).

2. Christians commit more molestations than anyone else.

3. The western world has raped and destroyed more cultures than anyone group of people.

NOw are all christians bad? NO Are all christians held liable for the actions of the few? NO So why do you treat other religions and people inferior for your political cause?

I am sad to see that people are still racists toward african americans and others to this day. As pilots we need to grow up and destroy the racism that is fostered to this day.

Those are good points. You sound like you know what's going on.

That's the problem today in our American society is that TOO MANY people are just ignorant of what's really going on in the world, and even worse, they don't care to know. They'll buy what Fox News says. Period.

There is reasoning behind these terrorist acts, and one needs not look any further than our government's actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan in the last 20-30 years.


Lastly, I'm sick and tired of hearing conservative people living in the isolated parts of the USA like in North Dakota, who claim they voted for Bush cause al Qaeda might attack them, and Bush will protect them.

Bullsh*t... al Qaeda is not going to attack North Dakota.

I'm sorry, but if you're a terrorist trying to attack the United States, and you hit North Dakota, then you MISSED !



*******************************************************

 

[DoinTime]

Oh yes, the IRA has hijacked hundreds, well dozens, well so they've never hijacked an airliner. Maybe they will next week, so let's let that Arab pass TSA and shake down that geeky white guy with the thick glasses.

If the act of hijacking an airplane equates to an act of terrorism then the Cubans are historically the biggest terrorists ever! I don't see a special strip search line at airport security specifically for Cubans.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Yeah, lets profile so that we can capture all terrorists and lock them up. I never met so many immature people till i started coming on this thread. Here are some facts for you people (remember these are facts).

1. Christians have killed more people in the name of religion than anyone else (slavery, genocide of native americans, imperialism, crusades).

2. Christians commit more molestations than anyone else.

3. The western world has raped and destroyed more cultures than anyone group of people.

NOw are all christians bad? NO Are all christians held liable for the actions of the few? NO So why do you treat other religions and people inferior for your political cause?

I am sad to see that people are still racists toward african americans and others to this day. As pilots we need to grow up and destroy the racism that is fostered to this day.

So where are your facts to back this up, chief? Flyer1015 says we aren't supposed to believe whats on Fox News....so I guess we should just believe what Sir Humpalot says on flightinfo.com instead. Riiight.

 

[Flyer1015]

So where are your facts to back this up, chief? Flyer1015 says we aren't supposed to believe whats on Fox News....so I guess we should just believe what Sir Humpalot says on flightinfo.com instead. Riiight.

No, that's not what I meant.

Everyday on FOX or CNN, on that bottom ticker, they "remind" you that we're on a "Yellow - Elevated" threat level. Really? I thought Bush said the world is safer now that Hussain is captured. Why can't we go down to Blue or Green? Because no matter what, we will never go down to those low warnings.

Is it really necessary or the news media to remind us EVERYDAY that we're on an "elevated threat level ?" Pleeeeeaaaaaasssseeee.

Who seriously considers that dang threat-level-color-meter? We all know that they will raise it to orange comes Ramadan or Christmas. We DONT need to be reminded of it everyday.

How many times have you heard on the local news (or even national news something so dang generic), and yet, they spin it, like: "Find out why your kid might be unsafe at school, tonight at 10. Also, find out why this white van parked outside the 7-11 could jeopordize your life. Tune in at 10 on KXTVY." Our nation runs on a media that preys on fear, because they know it will drive UP their ratings.



Watch one hour of fox news, and then watch one hour of BBC. You'll see what I mean.



And BTW, note how the Bush administration has successfully used the London attacks scenario to renew all major parts of the Patriot Act. Great. Now go arrest everyone who borrowed books about flying from their local library.
As Jon Stewart said, "Liberty has been playing hurt ever since the Patriot Act."

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Well sure, I agree with you on that. I'm not really sure what that has to do with profiling those who are MOST LIKELY to cause harm to us though. I'm not saying ignore everyone else, or that all acts of terrorism will be caused by one specific race, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting special attention on those that are more likely to be a threat. You can deny it all you want, but the fact remains that there is a particular race of individuals that are more likely to cause harm to American people. Thats just the way it is, and it drives me nuts to see people denying or ignoring this reality.

 

[Flyer1015]

but the fact remains that there is a particular race of individuals that are more likely to cause harm to American people. Thats just the way it is, and it drives me nuts to see people denying or ignoring this reality.

Yes, then go after the SPECIFIC people that are likely to harm American people. DO NOT pull over the entire race. Proportionately, more black people are incarcerated for violent crimes than white people (or other races). So why not start profiling them?

We won't. It isn't fair to scrutinize an entire race of people because a select few of them decided to blow sh*t up.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Yes, then go after the SPECIFIC people that are likely to harm American people. DO NOT pull over the entire race. Proportionately, more black people are incarcerated for violent crimes than white people (or other races). So why not start profiling them?

We won't. It isn't fair to scrutinize an entire race of people because a select few of them decided to blow sh*t up.

I think you are blowing this out or proportion. We aren't talking about any violent crime..we're talking about acts of terrorism. If a group of Middle Eastern men are going through a TSA line, they should be searched up and down, backwards and forwards before being allowed to board an airplane. Like it or not, they fit the profile of someone that could be out to commit terrorist acts against Americans. If they have nothing to hide, they get on the plane and go about their merry way. Is it fair? No....but its life. If it were the other way around something tells me that these individuals that we feel so badly for profiling wouldn't mind putting us through a strip search or two..while at gunpoint. The fact that common sense is slowly dying in our country is sad.

 

[mnalpha]

arbas hijack planes.

any questions.....

 

[Sir Humpalot]

flyer1015,

I agree with you on every point but i am pretty much a conservative. But unlike my conservative brethrens, i try to use my brain once in awhile. As an educated civilization, how can we allow only a certain group of people to be profiled and ignore everyone else who can cause us more harm.

The thing that is more alarming is that noone in the history of the world has ever mentioned the KKK as a christian terrorist group. Even though they dont exemplify anything with the religion, they walked around preaching about christ and the racial hierarchy. Milosevic, who is christian, killed many muslims over ethnic cleansing and yet he is not categorized as a christian terrrorist. Now comes along a group of fanatical muslims and all these conservative americans think that its the problem with the religion. They never blamed christianity with genocide, slavery, or the kkk but they will blame islam for the actions of its fanatics.

I know many muslims who are doctors, lawyers, and even pilots. All of them have the best attitude and are really fun to fly with. I also believe that a muslim lit the olympic torch in atlanta!

 

[atrdriver]

Only a matter of time before someone got on here and blamed the US for causing the acts of terror worldwide. Get a grip. These people want to eliminate our way of life. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it sure bothers people who value their freedoms. If you have a better idea of how to find terrorists that doesn't involve some sort of profiling then i'm all for it, but so far no one has come up with one. Whether you want to admit it or not a large percentage of worldwide terrorist acts in the last 20 years has been committed by muslim males. No, not all muslims are terrorists. But the vast majority of terrorists are muslims.

As far is it being forced on them, tough. Look at gun owners. Because of crime, buying a gun involves a background check, and in come cases a waiting period. This is being forced on law abiding gun owners, because of the criminals. What's the difference here? Many more people are killed by cars every year in the US than by guns, but you don't see a waiting period for a Volvo. My next door neighbor has to jump through hoops every time he flies because someone with his name is on the no-fly list. It's a pain for him, but he doesn't get upset with it except to be upset that the terrorist acts happened in the first place to make it necessary.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

The only people who support profiling are the people who have never been profiled. Yes, your neighbour is profiled but is he a muslim? Does he have to go to the interrogation room each time he flies? Wasnt Jose Padilla a mexican? Should we profile all mexicans? Where does the line stop? Why is it that in the history of the world, no anglo-saxon has ever been profiled? Is it coincidence?

You lecturing a muslim about profiling is like telling a minority that there is no discrimination. Isnt it amazing that we are in other countries preaching to them about freedom when we are taking away the freedom of our own citizens. Af far as i know, the constitution didnt change after 911.

DEMOCRACY through HYPOCRICY.

Think about it.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

atr driver,

I forgot to mention that you do bring up a good point about gun owners. There is no right solution upset that profiling is the only wrong solution.