Professional Pilot Salary Study 2005

[G4G5]

I am curious, what are the real salaries for a large corp flight department that has an all Gulfstream fleet consisting of G550(s) and G450(s)...

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".
He told them to save the sim money because they needed it more then he did. He now has a $175K G4 job at the same field and they got what they paid for.

Moral of the story, The jobs are out there if you look but for every descent job their is some dirtbag operation that will try to under pay you to work 17+ days a month if you let them.

 

[aeronautic1]

I Wish

If that's the percentage you ended up with, what did you start out asking for?!
You must have some weight to throw around to be able to bargain for that much...what do you have, pictures of the boss with his mistress?

I wish I had pix of owner/mistress. No, it was a sound business decision. I was not typed in the aircraft so owner paid for school. My starting pay was somewhere in between that of Frac and NBAA salary with the understanding that after one year I would have a progressive salary increase over two years to come into parity with corpoate salary for right seat. The second year I upgrade to left seat for part 91 segments and at the end of two years renegotiate for captain salary.

A fair and equitable salary, type rating, rapid upgrade and other considerations made this an excellent avenue for me to super-mids. I couldn't be happier.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I would think that some are high and some are low. In my case, though I haven't seen the 2005 study, I have seen others and they always say I am way underpaid. I guess it's one of those "Your Mileage May Vary" situations.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

He now has a $175K G4 job at the same field and they got what they paid for.

They got what they paid for? What did they get? Are you saying they have a bad pilot?

Ace

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I wish I had pix of owner/mistress. No, it was a sound business decision. I was not typed in the aircraft so owner paid for school. My starting pay was somewhere in between that of Frac and NBAA salary with the understanding that after one year I would have a progressive salary increase over two years to come into parity with corpoate salary for right seat. The second year I upgrade to left seat for part 91 segments and at the end of two years renegotiate for captain salary.

A fair and equitable salary, type rating, rapid upgrade and other considerations made this an excellent avenue for me to super-mids. I couldn't be happier.

You act like the school and type rating is part of your package.



"but they paid for my school"

aint that special!

.

 

[AA717driver]

From my limited exposure to corporate, I'd say there are a few really great, high paying jobs out there. But they inevitibly go away. If you get one, great but don't count on spending 30 years there.

I'm sure there are exceptions.TC

 

[Gearmunky]

From my limited exposure to corporate, I'd say there are a few really great, high paying jobs out there. But they inevitibly go away. If you get one, great but don't count on spending 30 years there.

I'm sure there are exceptions.TC

True, but I think it's really all on how your viewed by the powers to be.

Some (few) companies are there to realize that your responsible for the safety and lives of the board members, and to safely transport them from A to B with no hassles. Thus, helping the business and keeping the airplane safe.

The other view is "Hey, we want this airplane and the status it brings to our image and the convenience of our own plane, but were gonna need a couple of pilots. Well, these guys work a few hours sit for eight and work a few on the way home, hell that ain't no job what a bunch of cocky lazy pricks." These are the people who work you to death and don't pay squat. After all your only "working" four hours a day

If they only knew

 

[G4G5]

They got what they paid for? What did they get? Are you saying they have a bad pilot?

Ace

My buddy has an MBA, former fortune 50 experience, former military, plenty of flight time with time in both types.

What they got was a lear pilot with no time in either type, half the total time, no MBA, and no big fortune flt department experience. I am sure he is a great pilot and a great guy.

My point is that his resume was no where near the best in the pile but it was the best that $90k will get you.

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no first hand knowledge but I have seen this all to often. Our folks are paid with in the top 50% (of the companies I choose) and our turn over rates are within acceptable limits (when compared to other departments with in the company, not other flt departments). Their are all to many flight departments that are willing to hire lower time pilots with no type ratings because they will fly for whatever you offer. In a lot of the major departments the training budget is seperate from the salery budget. So, downtown never picks up on the fact that you are paying twice what the average department spends at FSI because your people only stick around for the free types and the experience, then move on. Downtown just looks at the salery survey and how much the aviation manager is saving them.

 

[MVSW]

I cant even make over 35K

 

[Bandit60]

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

Most CEO's didnt get to where they are by paying high salaries when they can pay lower salaries.

Most of the richest people I deal with are very tight with their money. They didnt make it by spending all

 

[rice]

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.
Ace

INSANE??????
"$100k plenty of dough", What are you kidding me? FYI, many Teachers, Cops, Nurses, Attorneys, and other occupations make $100k or more in the NY/NJ/CT area. Why because they have to keep up with the cost of living in the area. Your comment about Doctors is just ludicrous. Now how many of us "Professional Pilots" have a defined benefit plan such as those teachers and cops? Not many in this day and age. And what about the guys working for management companies? You won't see many of them with perks such as stock options, qtrly bonuses, etc.
You may know plenty of people flying a G-IV for $95k but I guarantee you they don't live within a 2 hr drive of TEB/HPN/FRG/MMU/BDL.
Try finding a house in the greater tri-satate area for under $500k!! I'm not talking a palace either, a 3-4 bdr house averaging 25 to 30 yrs old with taxes up the ying yang typically starts in the high $450k+ range but if you want anything near new it'll bump you north of $600k nowaday. Thats about $3500/mo just to cover the housing nut not to mention car payments, (I drive a dodge thank you), insurance, yada yada bills, college funds and the like. Guess how much is left over from that extravagant $100k for a self funded (401k) retirement plan? ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!!!!!!
I don't want/need the Jones' stuff but theres no way I'm going upside down each month in my finances just so I can keep the boss happy. If he can afford to own the plane he can afford to pay a living wage in the area which its based.
But hey lets not be greedy.

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".

The two banks you are referring to have totally different salary structures. Yes, Citi is extremely (shall we say) frugal when it comes to paying their employees, from pilots through ops and maintenence right to the flight attendants.

JPMC on the other hand has a pilot staff averaging around age 60, who are paid accordingly. These guys are not youngsters who are starting out at $45k flying SIC in the Challenger. They are all well seasoned professionals who are paid what they are worth and bring to the table. The individual running Flight Ops makes DOUBLE the base salary of the individual running Citi's Ops. That's a fact. And let's not forget the Flight Attendant who joined JPMC from Citi and is NOW happier than she's ever been, about both salary as well as working conditions.

So don't put the two banks into the same category, they are worlds apart.

 

[G4G5]

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[Ace-of-the-Base]

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

 

[rice]

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Dang, missed this one before it got edited!!!! Bet it was good though.
Call me, we'll do lunch at the deli but it'll have to be only half sandwiches so I can put a little something in the 401k this month .

 

[rice]

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

Thats about as smart as asking how good looking the wife or girlfriend should be!!!!!!

BTW, I know a G-IV guy making $95k who's wife is hideous. But he's happy.

 

[G4G5]

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

It depends upon what the MBA was in, Aviation mgt or finance, certianly would give you a leg up on another potential candidate. Embry Riddle and most aviation colleges now offer aviation related MBAs.

I have been around long enough to discover that you should be paid the equivallent of what you bring to the table. Never sell yourself short. The difference between corporate and the airlines is that you have no union support when negotiating your salery. You have to cut the best deal that you can, and for a lot of us our saleries are directly proportionate to our abilities to negotate.

A key thing to remember is Quality of Life. Only you can put a price on it and Mr. Smith has no way of placing it in his survey. Just last week I had a friend call me up for advice. He was going between 2 offers. Offer 1 paid more then offer 2 by approx $10k. Offer 2 was with a company that shut down the flt department every X-mas through New Years and offered more total time off. My buddy was really getting caught up in the numbers until I asked him to place a dollar figure on having to tell his daughter that he would not be home for the next X number of Christmas's.

So to answer your friendly question, get whatever number makes you sleep well at night beacuse at the end of the day if you are not happy then you will not do the best you can and subsequently your employer will not be happy.

Good luck.

Getting back to the pro pilot survey, I have always felt it was a bit low but I have never taken it seriously because I don't know all that many pilots that actually fill it out.

 

[G4G5]

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".

The two banks you are referring to have totally different salary structures. Yes, Citi is extremely (shall we say) frugal when it comes to paying their employees, from pilots through ops and maintenence right to the flight attendants.

JPMC on the other hand has a pilot staff averaging around age 60, who are paid accordingly. These guys are not youngsters who are starting out at $45k flying SIC in the Challenger. They are all well seasoned professionals who are paid what they are worth and bring to the table. The individual running Flight Ops makes DOUBLE the base salary of the individual running Citi's Ops. That's a fact. And let's not forget the Flight Attendant who joined JPMC from Citi and is NOW happier than she's ever been, about both salary as well as working conditions.

So don't put the two banks into the same category, they are worlds apart.

So then it's safe to say that you have at least one regular line captain making north of $175k and at least 3 or 4 making at least $150k. Because if that is what you are trying to tell us when you quoted me, I commend you.

As a former Jet Aviation employee, I can honestly tell you that I did not know of a single account that paid their pilots that well. Maybe I am wrong and I certianly hope that I am. Now that you folks are no longer part of Jet and the mgt structure I am glad to see you are raising the bar. Good luck.

Not to lump you in with the other guys because, "the Citi never sleeps" and they never pay.

 

[G4G5]

Dang, missed this one before it got edited!!!! Bet it was good though.
Call me, we'll do lunch at the deli but it'll have to be only half sandwiches so I can put a little something in the 401k this month .

Mon and Tues are shot, Wed looks like the best day this week.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

It depends upon what the MBA was in, Aviation mgt or finance, certianly would give you a leg up on another potential candidate. Embry Riddle and most aviation colleges now offer aviation related MBAs.

I have been around long enough to discover that you should be paid the equivallent of what you bring to the table. Never sell yourself short. The difference between corporate and the airlines is that you have no union support when negotiating your salery. You have to cut the best deal that you can, and for a lot of us our saleries are directly proportionate to our abilities to negotate.

A key thing to remember is Quality of Life. Only you can put a price on it and Mr. Smith has no way of placing it in his survey. Just last week I had a friend call me up for advice. He was going between 2 offers. Offer 1 paid more then offer 2 by approx $10k. Offer 2 was with a company that shut down the flt department every X-mas through New Years and offered more total time off. My buddy was really getting caught up in the numbers until I asked him to place a dollar figure on having to tell his daughter that he would not be home for the next X number of Christmas's.

So to answer your friendly question, get whatever number makes you sleep well at night beacuse at the end of the day if you are not happy then you will not do the best you can and subsequently your employer will not be happy.

Good luck.

Getting back to the pro pilot survey, I have always felt it was a bit low but I have never taken it seriously because I don't know all that many pilots that actually fill it out.

Therefore, you support my original post. I DO know plenty of pilots making around 100K and are very happy. QOL. You're preaching to the choir.

About the MBA crack, it's just my experience that the 'book' types can't fly themselves out of a box. Just my observation, not a scientific statement. But when I sit down and list what I, as a CEO, want in a pilot, a Master's degree doesn't show up on the list. A culture of safety, high flight time, time in type (sorry all you lower time guys, but I know that I can solve alot more problems now with a few thousand hours in the plane), good team building skills, good personality, health, loyalty, life satisfaction (happy person = good pilot), etc. These are the things that make a good pilot and a good employee. He needs to make good descisions, make my trophy wife happy and get along with others. Hmmmmm, I'm not sure I'd hire myself.

Ace