Professional Pilot Salary Study 2005

[GVFlyer]

Does anybody but me think that the Professional Pilot Salary Study 2005 is skewed way to the low side? Since I left the Big G, I earn significantly more than what they are showing even as high salary for a chief pilot and thats before counting what I get for consultant work from my former employer and the stock options I get from my present one. I don't think my experience is atypical; I know other G550 and Global captains whose base compensation is at least $175K. I think a magazine article such as this that low balls salaries does us all a disservice when our respective human captial departments go out looking to see how much to give us for our annual raises, bonuses and other perks.

GV

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I did not look at the JokePilot salary survey yet this year.

However, I dont know many GV/GLEX pilots making over 175K. Most I know are in the 120-160K range before the laundry list of perks...a few with private owners seem to be near the top, most with large companies seem in the previous range....

What kind of gigs are we talking here? spend 6 months/yr in Saudi, fly 800hrs (2 pilots) no thanks.....are you talking regular Fortune XX decent jobs?

If the norm to you and your friends starts at 175K and well North of 200K is normal, I am certainly hangin out in the wrong places.....and I hate that thought.....please PM me with any hiring contact info you can. (Im not kidding.)


Thanks!

 

[GEXDriver]

Does anybody but me think that the Professional Pilot Salary Study 2005 is skewed way to the low side? Since I left the Big G, I earn significantly more than what they are showing even as high salary for a chief pilot and thats before counting what I get for consultant work from my former employer and the stock options I get from my present one. I don't think my experience is atypical; I know other G550 and Global captains whose base compensation is at least $175K. I think a magazine article such as this that low balls salaries does us all a disservice when our respective human captial departments go out looking to see how much to give us for our annual raises, bonuses and other perks.

GV

I'm with you, GV. We also make north of 200k once everything is added up. If our HR department looks at that magazine they will be telling us we're over compensated.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Well when you have idiot, suck up, ass kissing scabs such as Clay Lacey writing for your Magazine what else would you expect?

 

[semperfido]

you guys got room for one more?

 

[421Driver]

The 135 #'s are better than what I make. Looks like it evens out! Honestly, I'd love to have a chance at one of those gigs.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Looks like the senior Gulfstream captains at NJI are making about $10k more than the average NBAA G550 captain while I'm making about fifteen grand less than the average NBAA Citation X captain...

Go figure.

 

[Gearmunky]

I agree with G200 100%

What kind of gigs are we talking here? spend 6 months/yr in Saudi, fly 800hrs (2 pilots) no thanks

I think the real question is "What's in a salary?"

I look at those salary numbers all the time, and of course none of it means anything to me for a while because I'm still in that "Lucky to be here, so don't bitch stage" The thing that applies though is where the salary comes from.

I don't know where anyone is based and can only speak for myself, but a $180k salary is just as bad as a $40K salary if I would have to live, say in TEB or in the middle of absolute nowhere. Granted enough vacation would ease the pain, but with today's housing market, the traffic up there, and everything else is it really worth it to have a couple higher numbers in your paycheck to deal with it everyday?

I understand most of us have mouths to feed and we all don't share the same personality and might like to live in places like that, but it wouldn't be worth it to me to be miserable everyday for money. I think that we should be happy that we all do what we love everyday and are lucky enough to get paid half way descent for it. Look at a teacher who loves kids, or a marine biologist who loves animals both are rewarding jobs that don't pay dik. We get to fly all over the place an chase women and eat at nice resturants on the company dime, to most of my friends on the outside that is the coolest thing in the world. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

By all means I am not flaming anyone, it's just a different perspective. I would love to make the numbers that are in there, I could use a bigger boat and a new truck, but the huge salary numbers usually come from places that I would not want to live and schedules I would never want to have. Granted I see where everyone is coming from, a G-V is a G-V no matter where you live and takes the same basic knowledge and skill to fly one. (Although no one else has the near wizard-like wealth of knowledge about it like GVFlyer) And the pay should represent itself equally most of the time.

Success is the only word that really doesn't have a definition, it is self defined. Again, I can only speak for myself, but there is an awful lot of wealthy miserable people out there, and I wouldn't want to trade my life for theirs. A good schedule, good place to live, not wearing a tie, and getting treated pretty good are worth more to me than money. I still am human though and making a lot of money on top of all that would be tre' sweet, but its not the only thing in the world.

Good Luck with the increases this year, hope everyone can be made happy

 

[semperfido]

I'm still in that "Lucky to be here, so don't bitch stage"

...aren't we all



...living in the NY area isn't as bad as you make it seem (although i don't live there anymore). there are a lot of nice places to live there. and traffic is only a hassle on the one or two days a week you might fly- and then it is not during rush hours. 200k would go a long way to ease the pain of a little traffic- although i think that number is a tad inflated.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You can do just fine in the NY/NJ area on 180-200K.

Traffic is also easier here than places like LA, San Fran, DC, South Florida, etc...its really not bad - especially with a corp schedule. If I have to be on the road at rush hour 3X a year thats a lot.

Does money go as far as the South? probably not...but one can do just fine on 180K.

A nice benefit - when your job goes away (oh they all do) you are in a great area to job shop..If you are GIV/GV/GLEX qualified and cant find SOME kind of flying employment in the NY area in a reasonable amount of time - there is something very wrong...

but to each his own.

 

[Capt1124]

I've heard of a Global Express captain who makes $250K, but that's in San Diego, and maybe it reflects the cost of living. Of course COL in the Northeast would be similar.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.

Ace

 

[semperfido]

Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.

Ace

who are they?

 

[SeaSpray]

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.

Ace

Ace, try not to drink before you post.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.

Ace

Nice Ace, you're happy making 200 large and don't feel any compunction to give any back to those needy doctors, nurses and teachers, but the rest of us should be grateful to make a 100k. Don't you think that's maybe just a tiny bit hypocritical? Haven't you heard - 200k is the new 100k.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Nice Ace, you're happy making 200 large and don't feel any compunction to give any back to those needy doctors, nurses and teachers, but the rest of us should be grateful to make a 100k. Don't you think that's maybe just a tiny bit hypocritical? Haven't you heard - 200k is the new 100k.

Right on all counts.

But seriously, my wife was a teacher and they work about 18 hours per day (grading papers and talking to students after the regular work day) and have the future of our country in their hands. I've worked hard to gain the experience that has helped to land me a dream job. All I'm saying, is that the average salary realized by most corporate pilots is darn good. Even if I hear about someone making 300K and working 10 days per month, I'm not going to be any less happy with my gig. 100K per year is still alot of money!

Ace

 

[aeronautic1]

Raises

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.

Ace

I negotiated an annual 12.5% pay increase into my contract. I'm staying put.

 

[Flying Illini]

I negotiated an annual 12.5% pay increase into my contract. I'm staying put.

If that's the percentage you ended up with, what did you start out asking for?!
You must have some weight to throw around to be able to bargain for that much...what do you have, pictures of the boss with his mistress?

 

[hotwing]

I am curious, what are the real salaries for a large corp flight department that has an all Gulfstream fleet consisting of G550(s) and G450(s)...

 

[Throttlebender]

I know of one that starts FO out in high 60s and tops out around 120-130. That's just salary though and doesn't include the "extras"

 

[G4G5]

I am curious, what are the real salaries for a large corp flight department that has an all Gulfstream fleet consisting of G550(s) and G450(s)...

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".
He told them to save the sim money because they needed it more then he did. He now has a $175K G4 job at the same field and they got what they paid for.

Moral of the story, The jobs are out there if you look but for every descent job their is some dirtbag operation that will try to under pay you to work 17+ days a month if you let them.

 

[aeronautic1]

I Wish

If that's the percentage you ended up with, what did you start out asking for?!
You must have some weight to throw around to be able to bargain for that much...what do you have, pictures of the boss with his mistress?

I wish I had pix of owner/mistress. No, it was a sound business decision. I was not typed in the aircraft so owner paid for school. My starting pay was somewhere in between that of Frac and NBAA salary with the understanding that after one year I would have a progressive salary increase over two years to come into parity with corpoate salary for right seat. The second year I upgrade to left seat for part 91 segments and at the end of two years renegotiate for captain salary.

A fair and equitable salary, type rating, rapid upgrade and other considerations made this an excellent avenue for me to super-mids. I couldn't be happier.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I would think that some are high and some are low. In my case, though I haven't seen the 2005 study, I have seen others and they always say I am way underpaid. I guess it's one of those "Your Mileage May Vary" situations.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

He now has a $175K G4 job at the same field and they got what they paid for.

They got what they paid for? What did they get? Are you saying they have a bad pilot?

Ace

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I wish I had pix of owner/mistress. No, it was a sound business decision. I was not typed in the aircraft so owner paid for school. My starting pay was somewhere in between that of Frac and NBAA salary with the understanding that after one year I would have a progressive salary increase over two years to come into parity with corpoate salary for right seat. The second year I upgrade to left seat for part 91 segments and at the end of two years renegotiate for captain salary.

A fair and equitable salary, type rating, rapid upgrade and other considerations made this an excellent avenue for me to super-mids. I couldn't be happier.

You act like the school and type rating is part of your package.



"but they paid for my school"

aint that special!

.

 

[AA717driver]

From my limited exposure to corporate, I'd say there are a few really great, high paying jobs out there. But they inevitibly go away. If you get one, great but don't count on spending 30 years there.

I'm sure there are exceptions.TC

 

[Gearmunky]

From my limited exposure to corporate, I'd say there are a few really great, high paying jobs out there. But they inevitibly go away. If you get one, great but don't count on spending 30 years there.

I'm sure there are exceptions.TC

True, but I think it's really all on how your viewed by the powers to be.

Some (few) companies are there to realize that your responsible for the safety and lives of the board members, and to safely transport them from A to B with no hassles. Thus, helping the business and keeping the airplane safe.

The other view is "Hey, we want this airplane and the status it brings to our image and the convenience of our own plane, but were gonna need a couple of pilots. Well, these guys work a few hours sit for eight and work a few on the way home, hell that ain't no job what a bunch of cocky lazy pricks." These are the people who work you to death and don't pay squat. After all your only "working" four hours a day

If they only knew

 

[G4G5]

They got what they paid for? What did they get? Are you saying they have a bad pilot?

Ace

My buddy has an MBA, former fortune 50 experience, former military, plenty of flight time with time in both types.

What they got was a lear pilot with no time in either type, half the total time, no MBA, and no big fortune flt department experience. I am sure he is a great pilot and a great guy.

My point is that his resume was no where near the best in the pile but it was the best that $90k will get you.

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

I am not saying that this is the case, since I have no first hand knowledge but I have seen this all to often. Our folks are paid with in the top 50% (of the companies I choose) and our turn over rates are within acceptable limits (when compared to other departments with in the company, not other flt departments). Their are all to many flight departments that are willing to hire lower time pilots with no type ratings because they will fly for whatever you offer. In a lot of the major departments the training budget is seperate from the salery budget. So, downtown never picks up on the fact that you are paying twice what the average department spends at FSI because your people only stick around for the free types and the experience, then move on. Downtown just looks at the salery survey and how much the aviation manager is saving them.

 

[MVSW]

I cant even make over 35K

 

[Bandit60]

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

Most CEO's didnt get to where they are by paying high salaries when they can pay lower salaries.

Most of the richest people I deal with are very tight with their money. They didnt make it by spending all