Procedure debate

[sayrejm]

and it doesn't say shall.... for the love of God people just call the FSDO.

 

[o2bflyn]

Chapter 5. Air Traffic Procedures
[SIZE=+1]Section 3. En Route Procedures[/SIZE]

5-3-3. Additional Reports ​

a. The following reports should be made to ATC or FSS facilities without a specific ATC request:
1. At all times.
(a) When vacating any previously assigned altitude or flight level for a newly assigned altitude or flight level.


Main Entry: pro·ce·dure
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈsē-jər\
Function: noun
Etymology: French procédure, from Middle French, from proceder
Date: circa 1611
1 a : a particular way of accomplishing something or of acting b : a step in a procedure
2 a : a series of steps followed in a regular definite order <legal procedure> <a surgical procedure> b : a set of instructions for a computer that has a name by which it can be called into action
3 a : a traditional or established way of doing things


Main Entry: should
Pronunciation: \shəd, ˈshu̇d\
Function: verbal auxiliary
Etymology: Middle English sholde, from Old English sceolde owed, was obliged to, ought to
Date: before 12th century
past of shall 1 —used in auxiliary function to express condition <if he should leave his father, his father would die — Gen 44:22(Revised Standard Version)>
2 —used in auxiliary function to express obligation, propriety, or expediency <'tis commanded I should do so — Shakespeare> <this is as it should be — H. L. Savage> <you should brush your teeth after each meal>
3 —used in auxiliary function to express futurity from a point of view in the past <realized that she should have to do most of her farm work before sunrise — Ellen Glasgow>
4 —used in auxiliary function to express what is probable or expected

1. Show me where it says the AIM is regulatory.

2. The AIM also says you should enter the traffic pattern at a 45 to the downwind leg. Do you do that everytime?


You people need to come up with something better than the AIM to prove its regulatory.

 

[LJ45]

for the love of God people just call the FSDO.

now that is funny :beer:

 

[KigAir]

Not to take this to another level but what about international, do you make a level off call?

Ex London Control tells you to descend to FL210, do you call, "level 210" upon reaching FL210?

I believe the proper terminology is "with you at level 210".

 

[gutshotdraw]

and it doesn't say shall.... for the love of God people just call the FSDO.

The problem is, you go into an FSDO and ask four Ops Inspectors for an opinion on a regulation and you will get five answers. The only thing that matters is what the NTSB Law Judge says at the conclusion of the hearing. Do you HAVE to make the call? In my opinion, no. Is it good operating technique to make the call? In my opinion, probably.

 

[Afterburner]

Yes, the AIM is considered non regulatory, but isn't that an oxymoron? The light gun signals are in the AIM, but just try and not comply with any of the signals while in flight or on the ground. The FAA will show up in a good time since non compliance with a light gun signal may be considered a pilot deviation.

As far as the PD descent...You guys are sooo good! Someday I hope to be as wise. My take: AIM 5-3-3(a) (1) The pilot should report without a specific request"when vacating any previously assigned altitude for a newly assigned altitude"...and everything FO4life said. Such professionals!

 

[Raskal]

My favorite thing about these discussions is all the "...the FAA has violated..." or "if there's a problem you'll be violated even though it wasn't required...". Bull********************. I hear this while flying with guys all the time along with the fresh out of some random redneck aviation college ground instructors during recurrent. Bull********************. It's like the urban legend-The Violated Airline Pilot. Bull********************. Go ahead, name the guy. The FAA doesn't violate even a 1/2 as many guys as everyone thinks they do for this kind of minutiae.

I swear, if most folks would just worry about doing what's right, what's safe, and what makes sense rather than what the feds 'might' do things would be much better for everyone.

 

[sleepy]

Everytime I want to report leaving an altitude there is always a lot of chatter on the freq. Then, by the time I can report it, we are a few thousand feet lower and it is probably obvious to the controler that we left the altitude.

 

[taters]

I call leaving an altititude most of the time and occasionaly I dont...never been bitched at when I didnt make the call. As many have said sure its a good practice but I feel it is redundant and not "required"

 

[C3pilot]

Don't have a clue what the rule states, but last night I asked the controler (JAX Center) if I needed to report when leaving the current alt, FL390, for the PD alt of FL240. He said no. Just sayin.