Possible SWA T.A. pay numbers... Embrace the suck.

[Lear70]

You guys all need to switch to decaf.

Yup.

Lear,

Your original post was premature and borderline sophomoric. You have no idea what YOU'RE talking about.

Possibly. If the final rates look like that snapshot, you guys can all apologize later.

Take a deep breath and another break. Southwest has been in business long before you got hired at AirTran. You will never have the schedule that you had at the Tran. You won't ever fly widebodies and upgrade is a long way off. You know this. You still have time to go to Delta and retire either widebody FO, or narrowbody CA.

Nope. Too old. Can't make the math work, already looked at it. Leaving year 10 step pay here to start over again at the bottom, upgrade about the same time, would only hold widebody F/O, would never be senior enough to hold widebody CA, just too old compared to the median age and retirements, so why take the pay hit and the risk of being at the bottom if the economy turns?

It is what it is. No one here is leaving for anyone else if they're over 40 and over year 5 longevity. Telling people to leave is just as much of a pipe dream as having my AAI schedule back. Just a pleasant memory now.

It's slightly hypocritical that you complain about SW negotiations when you ELECTED to go to AirTran. Step back and realize that.

If you say so. I don't believe any union member automatically forfeits their right to discuss negotiating goals or shortcomings based on what airline / military branch they came from. Or do Regional new-hires also forfeit their rights when they come here? Military? Your mileage may vary.

That being said, we all want the best contract. In that we can agree.

Agreed.

As for the rest of the fan club, I have neither the inclination to take more of my time, nor do I even care enough to debate the personal attacks. You have to care to be offended. Union work breeds thick skins; you learn to detach from what people say from behind the veil of anonymity and just not really give a sh*t - even get a chuckle out of the sophomoric writing skills.

p.s. Yes, Kernal is a Southwest term of endearment. There are plenty of military folks who are great to fly with, then there's the Kernals. Just the way it is, and we all know it.

Cheers,

 

[MRW]

I quit months ago, dumbass. You won't have the honor of flying with me in your antiquated airliner.

Oh my bad...He who quit the airline business but still hangs out at the forums. What a life!!! HA! SMH!!!

 

[Flopgut]

Lear,

Your original post was premature and borderline sophomoric. You have no idea what YOU'RE talking about. Take a deep breath and another break. Southwest has been in business long before you got hired at AirTran. You will never have the schedule that you had at the Tran. You won't ever fly widebodies and upgrade is a long way off. You know this. You still have time to go to Delta and retire either widebody FO, or narrowbody CA. It's slightly hypocritical that you complain about SW negotiations when you ELECTED to go to AirTran. Step back and realize that.

That being said, we all want the best contract. In that we can agree.

Red: It seemed many SWA posters (especially you) had serious concerns about the recent Delta TA. You all had put a lot of thought into their deal and wanted to make sure they felt some urgency about how their vote might affect you at SWA. They voted a resounding NO, which we all appreciate and I know you've said that yourself. But why then do you all at SWA shirk from the same responsible voting you insist out of Delta pilots? You were analizing the Delta TA from various seniority positions for any shortfall. Why are you so quick now to tell a former AirTran pilot to go lick the cats butt? iIf you don't want to be a lot more than "slightly hypocritical" yourself, you need to be insisting the FAT pilots get some make up $ in this contract.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yup.
If the final rates look like that snapshot, you guys can all apologize later.

What snapshot????? You posted a thread about terrible rates and get ready to embrace the suck but there are no numbers. I have absolutely no idea what numbers you are even speaking of!!! I can't apologize for anything because we are multiple pages in and I still don't know what numbers we are talking about.

 

[redflyer65]

Nope. Too old. Can't make the math work, already looked at it. Leaving year 10 step pay here to start over again at the bottom, upgrade about the same time, would only hold widebody F/O, would never be senior enough to hold widebody CA, just too old compared to the median age and retirements, so why take the pay hit and the risk of being at the bottom if the economy turns?

It is what it is. No one here is leaving for anyone else if they're over 40 and over year 5 longevity. Telling people to leave is just as much of a pipe dream as having my AAI schedule back. Just a pleasant memory now.



Cheers,

Lear,

I wasn't trying to get you to do anything. Didn't mean it to come off that way. Here's the deal...

DL upgrade to a narrow body is 7 years right now. It could drop to 5-6 soon. That's why I said you could easily retire a narrow body CA (you get that in 6 years) or a widebody FO. You won't upgrade here in 5-6 years. Not even close.

And by all means, you're entitled to your opinion on current negotiations, but to throw out the 'Embrace the Suck' with not knowing any real details is a little premature. The main point I was trying to make. I'm actually glad to have you on our team to review any TA we eventually get. The more eyes the better.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I wasn't trying to get you to do anything. Didn't mean it to come off that way. Here's the deal...

DL upgrade to a narrow body is 7 years right now. It could drop to 5-6 soon. That's why I said you could easily retire a narrow body CA (you get that in 6 years) or a widebody FO. You won't upgrade here in 5-6 years. Not even close.

And by all means, you're entitled to your opinion on current negotiations, but to throw out the 'Embrace the Suck' with not knowing any real details is a little premature. The main point I was trying to make. I'm actually glad to have you on our team to review any TA we eventually get. The more eyes the better.

I appreciate that, really I do, thanks.

Right now MySeniority.com with the growth calculator set at 2% yearly fleet growth shows 8 years to upgrade. At 1% (which is probably about right with the additional staffing we've had to add lately plus next year's growth (I'll take whatever I can get) it's 10 years to hit 55% (which is where the most junior people seem to be able to hold it with the few who stay senior F/O and play the POT game).

That's 4 years of Small Jet CA at years 6-9 averaging $135 / hr (717 or their new Embraer rates if they even get them) * 80 hrs /mo = $10,800 month versus staying here at SWA 737 Max F/O rate (roughly $133/trip times the 90 per month I average) which is $11,990 per month. A $12k a year loss plus retirement, etc.

Plus the loss of that $12k a month NOW if I bailed for the next 5-6 years at new-hire Delta pay. I'd easily lose $250k-300k. If I could even get hired, who the heck knows.

The only thing that would make sense for me to go is if I could eventually make widebody CA to offset the money I lose over the next decade, and who would want to do that on reserve the last few years of their career? Plus the uncertainty of being at the bottom of a seniority list after a couple 2-3 years of upswing,,, we all know how this industry cycles.

Like I said, age really makes it not feasible. Trying to make the best of it, there's a lot of people who came before me that have had it worse (Eastern, PanAm), which I try to remember when I really get annoyed. Doesn't mean I won't stop pushing for those commutable lines.

Hopefully this contract will turn out better than I suspect. I'll do my part, all I can do is try.

 

[outerlimits]

What are the chances SWA will have moderate growth , Going into a lot of new markets outside the U.S. . I hear the new 737 can fly longer . I also hear they have a bucket load of new cities they want to fly into .

Thanks

 

[tankerhead]

Lear,

You forgot to mention the hat and admiral's coat. Lifetime wardrobe and hathead impacts.

 

[madjack]

"Grass is always greener" and my "absorbed/former carrier was much better than my new combined carrier" are common themes with pilots...it's hard to know if Lear70 will be better off at SWA because AAI is no more...ask the CAL or NWA pilots think about their new combined carrier...but history has proven SWA has been a consistently well managed company that has provided unprecedented (for the airlines) job security for its employees...we bitch about GK and our current contract and state of negotiations here at SWA but we have been spared the trauma of bankruptcy and furlough for over 40 years and that is "worth" a lot!!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

My last job had never furloughed in the history of the company... until they did. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.