Polar Air Cargo, 30 days out from possible strike.

[B747-300]

"Btw, not one Atlas pilot has crossed a Polar picket line!!"

Absolutely true. We have had alternate entrances established and we report for work at the standard time by avoiding the picket lines.

 

[furloughfodder]

Craven,

I am not trying to make the Atlas group look bad, I have stated over and over again that the vast majority of Atlas guys are behind Polar. I am just saying that -300's comments are making the whole group look bad because he is so Anti-Polar. It is sad to see any pilot come out and talk so bad about a group of pilots that are out on strike, and not pledge them any support. Much less a pilot that works for the same holding company.

But alas, pilots will be pilots. What is best for ME is best for ME seems to be the motto (along with "WE WON'T CROSS PICKET LINES...WE WILL GO AROUND THEM!") Maybe you can get yourself a bag tag in Itaewon that says that on it -300.

BTW - I am the only one that finds it a little suspicious that -300 only has 22 posts on this message board, and all but two are on this thread?

Hello Cato.

 

[B747-300]

Since we're making assumptions about posters, I guess it's fair to assume that a guy/girl who makes several hundred posts in a wide variety of topics is certainly someone who thinks their opinion is so valuable that they must inject it everywhere possible. You don't work for Polar or Atlas. You're just some know-it-all who can't refrain from butting into a conversation.

 

[CRJ's suck]

Question

Ok, I know Atlas Air Worldwide Inc. owns Polar Air Cargo Inc. and Atlas Air Inc.

Aren't Atlas Air and Polar operated under seperate certificates? Doesn't this mean that they are two "separate" companies just wholly owned by a holding company?

What's the problem with Atlas crews flying Atlas planes and Atlas Cargo????

I just don't get what beef the polar crews have with the atlas crews. If someone can enlighten me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Craven Morhead]

"I just don't get what beef the polar crews have with the atlas crews. If someone can enlighten me it would be greatly appreciated."


Alot of us would appreciate this one!!

 

[FearlessFreep]

Does anyone have any noteworthy news?

Will the company be open for negotiations soon?

Will they lock out the pilots?

Will they attempt to hire replacement workers? (No scab flames on this just trying to see what is going on)

Will they liquidate and consolidate the remnants with Atlas?

If the latter is the case would Polar pilots have an opportunity for employment with Atlas?

What is going on NOW?

Inquiring minds want to know!


Good Luck To Us All!

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Ok, I know Atlas Air Worldwide Inc. owns Polar Air Cargo Inc. and Atlas Air Inc.

Aren't Atlas Air and Polar operated under seperate certificates? Doesn't this mean that they are two "separate" companies just wholly owned by a holding company?

What's the problem with Atlas crews flying Atlas planes and Atlas Cargo????

I just don't get what beef the polar crews have with the atlas crews. If someone can enlighten me it would be greatly appreciated.

CRJ,
I don't know what the problem is between our two groups, there is just a lot of distrust on both sides, and management feeds off it. I don't have a problem with the Polar guys, I have a few friends that fly for them and one of them just called recently asking about the possibility of coming towork at Atlas. I wished that we could have merged and put all this behind us, but it doesn't look like that will ever happen now.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

"I just don't get what beef the polar crews have with the atlas crews. If someone can enlighten me it would be greatly appreciated."


Alot of us would appreciate this one!!

I don't know what the problem is also, if someone can answer this please let us all know!!!!!!

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Does anyone have any noteworthy news?

Will the company be open for negotiations soon?

Will they lock out the pilots?

Will they attempt to hire replacement workers? (No scab flames on this just trying to see what is going on)

Will they liquidate and consolidate the remnants with Atlas?

If the latter is the case would Polar pilots have an opportunity for employment with Atlas?

What is going on NOW?

Inquiring minds want to know!


Good Luck To Us All!

Fearless Freep,

The negotiations have ended, but the company's offer is still on the table. I guess the lockout will remain in effect for the duration of their strike. There has been no new hires at Polar, but we're hiring like crazy at Atlas. It looks like the company has put a deadline out there (September 30, 2005) and it sounds like the demise of Polar is rapidly approaching. The Polar pilots have the opportunity to come to Atlas as New Hires.

I hope I was able to answer some of your questions.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Boeing Pilots

747-300,

I don't know who you are, but let's stop all the name calling here!



And those Polar guys who think we are flying their aircraft, the -400's that have been moved recently were operated by Boeing company contractor pilots.

 

[Whale Rider]

I don't know what the problem is also, if someone can answer this please let us all know!!!!!!

No problem check the VARS.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

No problem check the VARS.

I can't believe it!

Atlas pilots flying Atlas freight (Giant callsign), and Atlas instructors training Atlas pilots. Two separate companies, owned by the same parent company, I wonder if Delta pilots did the same when Comair went on strike in 2001, or why haven't the NWA pilots done the same for the striking mechanics?????

I don't understand ALPA!

 

[B747-300]

It looks like the planes will be rerouted through Fairbanks to avoid the ANC problems completely. Not sure what affect MIA will have short-term.

The 30th is the day. Nearly 100 more crewmembers will be furloughed if Polar crews don't accept what's on the table by then. I think this will continue until there is no longer a Polar Air Cargo.

 

[heilhaavir]

Good posts B747fr8, and don't worry we know boeing crews repositioned some airplanes. Might have been a doubt at first for some and as you know it always takes a little for everybody to be informed, but everybody on this side should be up to date by now.

-300 you still make us smile, keep it up. Fairbanks was already thought of last night, no surprise

You really think that guys on strike feel threatened by furlough??

 

[Whale Rider]

Looks like Fairbanks just got a picketline set up......check the VARS!

 

[furloughfodder]

Fairanks is not a viable solution to closing down ANC Mr. Cato. In answer to your question about MIA, can you imagine the effect closing down the training center will have? No more recurrent=pilots sitting at home. It will just start adding up. Also, I am sure all the Polar guys that are out on strike are pretty upset about their furlough.

I think this a great news, and I am glad to see you guys are all 100% behind Polar now! Just think about this: when this gets resolved...

I think you can rest assured when your contract comes up in Janurary, you will have the Polar Pilots 100% backing you, and we all know how much cajones they have. You guys will have so much power going into negotiations because you are now so unified!

Congratulations! You guys at Atlas and Polar ROCK!

 

[B747-300]

"You really think that guys on strike feel threatened by furlough??"

Only the ones smart enough to know their job will be gone forever. You guys had furlough protection in your contract, but I guess that went out the window when you went on strike.

I hope you've got enough people to cover all the possible entry points onto the ramps at FAI and ANC. When faced with "Fly the flight or be disciplined", I don't think too many Atlas guys are going to stick their necks out for the likes of you.

We will never be identified as scabs for flying Atlas planes full of Atlas cargo while Polar is on strike. Sorry. Two separate companies. You have the right to do what you're doing, but I have the right to work and feed my family too.

 

[Whale Rider]

"You really think that guys on strike feel threatened by furlough??"

Only the ones smart enough to know their job will be gone forever. You guys had furlough protection in your contract, but I guess that went out the window when you went on strike.

I hope you've got enough people to cover all the possible entry points onto the ramps at FAI and ANC. When faced with "Fly the flight or be disciplined", I don't think too many Atlas guys are going to stick their necks out for the likes of you.

We will never be identified as scabs for flying Atlas planes full of Atlas cargo while Polar is on strike. Sorry. Two separate companies. You have the right to do what you're doing, but I have the right to work and feed my family too.

They can't put every Atlas Pilot on "Administrative Leave", that'll just work to Polar/Atlas' advantage.

 

[furloughfodder]

B747-300 (Mr. Cato) -

Please listen to your new 9-24-05 VARS this morning. ANC and now Fairbanks are considered STRUCK AIRPORTS now. ANC is completely shut down, and your MEC is reporting NO ATLAS PILOTS have crossed a picket line. (I don't blame them, even in the VARS Mr. Bourne mentions that crossing at this point, or even setting foot on the airport property would brand you a "S" word for life.)

Also, as of now, Fairbanks is being considered a STRUCK AIRPORT, and I am hearing reports it is completely shut down as well. You need to listen to the VARS, it explains why this is so important.

This is the solidarity that ALPA has needed for the last 10 years. There is a chance ALPA can become a real union again after this.

 

[waazzuuuup!!]

Looks Like B747-300 Will Be The Only One Showing Up To Work.

We Will Soon Find Out Who You Are..................................

 

[furloughfodder]

I have to admit, you guys at Atlas have some balls too!! Here is the public release available on the VARS this morning from the Atlas MEC Chairman:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Crewmembers, this is your MEC Chairman Dave Bourne. Much has happened since the ALPA Executive council and your MEC discussed and received the answers to our inquiries on what “crossing a Picket line” means for the Atlas crewforce. I want to report to you that no one has crossed the lawful Polar crewmember strike picket lines in ANC and all aircraft movements out of ANC have ceased. As of right now, WE have had no crewmembers SCAB across the picket lines at ANC or the Training center.

Let me take a few moments to bring you up to speed on how we got here. Up until the decisions of yesterday were handed down from the MEC and ALPA National, we were as I said in my earlier VARS message, walking the narrow line of supporting Polar crewmembers by not flying struck freight, call signs, or Polar aircraft but were not yet exercising our explicit contractual and RLA rights not to cross the Polar picket lines. What Changed? First off, our Negotiating Chairman Paul Alves was taken hostage for honoring HIS explicit rights in our CBA to not cross a Polar picket line. This brought to a head a growing firestorm for your MEC and for ALPA National on what it means to honor a picket line. Representatives from ALL US and Canadian carriers within ALPA ie Northwest, Delta, United, FedEx, Continental, ATA, Astar ,and all others met with your MEC to discuss the union’s right to not cross a picket line, or in other words, the right not to SCAB. This in turn started an in-depth discussion as to what that means to Atlas crewmembers who are on a different certificate but wholly owned, operated, managed, and interchanged (alliance agreement) by the same management group. It was agreed to by 100% of the ALPA Executive Council (representing ALPA carriers throughout this country and Canada) that Atlas and Polar are tied together by our incestuous relationship due to managements’ blending of the operations, and therefore we ourselves clearly have too much at stake in the Polar strike ourselves, not to exercise our clear contractual and RLA rights to refuse to cross the Polar strike picket lines. Therefore, due to Atlas management’s decisions on the joint management and operation of both Atlas and Polar, and the taking of a hostage, which brought all of this to light, your MEC, with ALPA’s full endorsement and support, determined that we must and will honor the lawful Polar crewmember strike picket lines as if they were our own, and to cross is to SCAB. We have the explicit and legally protected right not to cross, and if we do not exercise that right, then our own CBA is damaged and the rights of every union member in this country are undermined and put at risk. That is why you see FedEX, Delta, Northwest, Mesaba, and a host of other pilots from other ALPA carriers showing up on the Polar picket line now. TO CROSS A POLAR PICKET LINE IS TO CROSS AGAINST THE CLEAR WISHES OF EVERY ALPA UNIONIZED PILOT GROUP IN THIS COUNTRY AND CANADA. This is why our solidarity and support is so important.

Turning to developments overnight, your MEC has become aware that the company is attempting to circumvent the lawful Polar picket lines established at Anchorage and our lawful honoring of them by rerouting Atlas aircraft to Fairbanks Alaska for technical stops and crew changes. Your MEC has just confirmed within the last hour that lawful Polar crewmember strike picket lines have formed at Fairbanks airport in Alaska. Therefore this morning your MEC must also and does consider Fairbanks Alaska a picketed facility. DO NOT CROSS THE POLAR CREWMEMBER PICKET LINE AT THE FAIRBANKS FACILITY IN ANY MANNER, FOR ANY REASON, AT ANY TIME.

I will now read the MEC’s most recent resolution regarding this issue.

ATLAS MEC RESOLUTION
​

WHEREAS, consistent with the Atlas crewmembers’ rights under the Railway Labor Act, the Atlas-ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement (“CBA”) specifically provides that ALPA and the Atlas crewmembers may honor and “refuse to cross lawful strike picket lines established by or on behalf of pilots represented by any union lawfully certified or recognized pursuant to the Railway Labor Act,” and

WHEREAS, crewmembers employed in the service of Polar Air Cargo, Inc., represented by ALPA, are currently engaged in a lawful strike pursuant to the Railway Labor Act and have established lawful strike picket lines at a variety of locations throughout the combined Atlas-Polar Atlas Worldwide Holdings System, and

WHEREAS, Polar and Atlas are commonly owned, controlled, directed by the same management team, and are clearly acting as “allies” in the labor dispute with Polar crewmembers, and

WHEREAS the Atlas MEC desires to support our fellow Polar crewmembers in a manner that is explicitly authorized by our CBA and is consistent with law, and

WHEREAS the Atlas MEC on September 23, 2005 resolved, with ALPA National’s full support and endorsement, to fully exercise ALPA’s and the Atlas crewmembers’ explicit contractual right to honor and refuse to cross lawful strike picket lines established by Polar crewmembers at the airport facilities in Anchorage, Alaska and the joint Atlas-Polar Training Center in Miami, Florida until further notice, and

WHEREAS the Atlas MEC has since learned that Atlas management is attempting to circumvent the lawful Polar crewmember strike pickets and this MEC’s lawful honoring of said pickets at Anchorage by attempting to move Atlas operations from Anchorage, Alaska to non-standard airport facilities in Fairbanks, Alaska, and

WHEREAS the MEC has researched the matter and determined that there are lawful Polar crewmember strike pickets established at the airport in Fairbanks, Alaska,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the picketed airport at Fairbanks, Alaska is also now considered a picketed location by ALPA and the Atlas MEC.

IT IS ALSO RESOLVED THAT Atlas crewmembers shall not cross the Polar crewmember strike picket lines established at Fairbanks, Alaska for any purpose.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT, notwithstanding the above directives, new-hire Atlas crewmembers who have not completed their Initial Operating Experience plus a following first revenue leg should continue their training until those milestones are reached, and that the above-stated directives do not apply to probationary crewmembers who have not yet achieved their one-year anniversary.

IT IS ALSO RESOLVED THAT the special Atlas MEC meeting at which this resolution is adopted will be recessed to the call of the MEC Chairman, to be reconvened at times to be determined by the MEC Chairman.

MAKER: Atlas MEC

SECOND: Unanimous

APPROVED: Unanimously, September 24, 2005.

In closing, your MEC recognizes that this is a very emotional and unsettling time. We all want to work, and we will work, but we cannot and WILL NOT cross a picket line of Polar Air Cargo. We cannot and WILL NOT become this nation’s SCABS. We have the full backing, support and resources of ALPA National and the over 60,000 ALPA pilots. We will update you ASAP. Thank you, continue to do your job, and fly safe.

 

[747Rubani]

Sweet!!!! this is what I've been waiting for. United we will both get a fair contract, rest assured when the atlas pilots start their contract negotiations the polar pilots are going to be 101% behind them. Its NOT WORTH becoming a SCAB for this management.

 

[B-atch]

Big D is ONBOARD!

My hat's off to Dave Bourne!!! You Sir have BRASS COJONES!!! United we will PREVAIL......

B747-300........take 2 aspirin and call US in the morning. I have a feeling that the last 12 hrs. have materialized into YOU'R worst NIGHTMARE!!!

 

[heilhaavir]

B747-300 says:
<<Only the ones smart enough to know their job will be gone forever. You guys had furlough protection in your contract, but I guess that went out the window when you went on strike.>>

-300 your intelligence is quite questionable.... we are on strike, therefore our contract is "null & void", our furlough protection included. We are technically "out of a job" already, so how on earth can anyone even threaten us with a furlough, it's really laughable ..........

<<I hope you've got enough people to cover all the possible entry points onto the ramps at FAI and ANC. When faced with "Fly the flight or be disciplined", I don't think too many Atlas guys are going to stick their necks out for the likes of you.>>

Sweetie pie, we've got 360 guys & gals sitting around with nothing else to do

<<We will never be identified as scabs for flying Atlas planes full of Atlas cargo while Polar is on strike. Sorry. Two separate companies. You have the right to do what you're doing, but I have the right to work and feed my family too.>>

Correct, You have the right to do anything you want and that includes crossing the line, which today by the way, is more defined than EVER. It is your choice and no one will stop you.

 

[B747-300]

Yes, Dave is a really smart guy. The resolution is written in such a way as to allow Atlas to continue operating. Keeps his guys happy and appears to be supporting Polar at the same time. Good show!

I've got to go sleep now. Many long, double crew days ahead. Two crews on in Asia. Tech stop in Alaska (nobody gets on, nobody gets off) and on to destination. Can't ever be accused of "crossing the line" by doing that.

You guys think MIA is the only place with 747 sims??

 

[heilhaavir]

My my my, we never thought of that, now we're really scared. Have a good flight honeybun.

 

[Whale Rider]

Yes, Dave is a really smart guy. The resolution is written in such a way as to allow Atlas to continue operating. Keeps his guys happy and appears to be supporting Polar at the same time. Good show!

I've got to go sleep now. Many long, double crew days ahead. Two crews on in Asia. Tech stop in Alaska (nobody gets on, nobody gets off) and on to destination. Can't ever be accused of "crossing the line" by doing that.

You guys think MIA is the only place with 747 sims??

Sims elsewhere? SURE! But it's going to cost 'em...

 

[TonyC]

Tech stop in Alaska (nobody gets on, nobody gets off) and on to destination. Can't ever be accused of "crossing the line" by doing that.

Tech stops are fine. It's the pushback after the stop that'll gitcha.


As soon as you set the parking brake in ANC or FAI, you have the choice to deplane or SCAB.




.

 

[treetopflyer]

so what do the probationary atlas air pilots do when sent to anc? this was discussed earlier but with the current line crossing language, it seems that we dont cross, lose our jobs and hope we get them back at a later date? not saying i would cross when instructed to do so but contemplating other means of not crossing (cough, cough) damn i dont feel well. a little guidance for the probies would be nice.

 

[747Rubani]

if you are on probation and cross the line you are not considered a scab. If I were you I would cross the line assuming I'm on probation, if you dont the company has the right to fire you. Now you just screwed yourself. Besides it would be hard to fly a 74 with only you in the airplane. My 2 cents.