Pinnacle Washout Rate

[Lear70]

Ummm... okay. I'll bite.

First, the CRJ doesn't have "manual reversion". In order for an aircraft to have "manual reversion" the aircraft has to have trim tabs on the control surfaces that become primary flight controls in the event of a loss of all hydraulics. The CRJ trims the control surface itself and doesn't have trim tabs.

Second, since the only way to fly the aircraft with a true "loss of all hydraulics" (assuming a loss of all system fluid, not just the pumps), is with differential power on the engines and electric pitch trim on the horizontal stab, it's a "Captain only" bullsh*t thing they only do on P.T.'s, never on a P.C. - how the h*ll are you supposed to keep ATP minimums with only differential thrust and pitch trim? BTW, about half the experienced line captains put this one in the dirt when they get it.

Third, they never give "multiple failures", just one failure after another and only after the one failure is resolved through the completion of its related checklist (I agree with you Surplus, just telling you how they view it). On my last P.C. I got a left engine fire on short final on an NDB approach with a rejected landing and the associated engine failure on the go-around, then after it was extinguished and we were maneuvering back for an ILS we got the cargo fire, then after that was extinguished, the APU fire which wouldn't extinguish then the right engine fire on short final again and no runway in sight at minimums. I landed anyway. P.C. passed but talk about unrealistic... but legal, every fire happened after the last one ended. Just pushing the limits of S.A. and systems management during an emergency and good judgment.

Welcome to Cynical Airlines.

 

[Alchemy]

This was on an ERJ, don't know if that makes any difference when talking about hydraulic failures. I have no idea if what the guy told me was completely accurate or if he was exaggerating a little. He said that he'd been having trouble all along and maybe they used this as a good solid reason to weed him out.

 

[upndsky]

I've never flown a CRJ so I don't know anything about its systems. But on the ERJ, we did practice something called "manual reversion." in which you had a complete hydraulic failure. Like the CRJ, there are no trim tabs so you have to move the entire control surface, as well as move all the actuators, which are now fighting against you.

All I can tell you is that it took both hands and all my strength to just fly the d@mn thing. I had the captain (actually my sim partner playing the role) do everything else, including setting thrust, radios, etc. By the end of it, I had worked up a good sweat.

We got it on the ground, but it wasn't pretty. It was done once, during one of our sim sessions and only to show us what manual reversion felt like. I've never heard of anyone getting it on a PC. I can't imagine having to deal with this plus several other emergencies at the same time as well.

 

[AA717driver]

Giving multiple failures to low-timers is chicken$h!t. How often has anyone here in RJ's or above experienced multiple-failure emergency?

Some sim instructors amaze me.TC

P.S.--I flown with a couple of riddle grads that were cool but some were real dooshbags! Sorry.

 

[surplus1]

Giving multiple failures to low-timers is chicken$h!t. How often has anyone here in RJ's or above experienced multiple-failure emergency?

Some sim instructors amaze me.TC

Unfortunately, there are quite a few people with the title of "instructor" wandering around in the regional airlines who are not far removed from General Aviation. While this does happen at the "majors" as well, it is relatively rare. Especially since many have contractual terms prohibiting it.

At one time my airline suffered from a few of these folks that were sadists or impressed by themselves. Our union saw to it that they were weeded out. We have eliminated any possibility of a reinfection by contractual prohibitions.

Of course I don't know if the described scenario is true or a fabrication. If it is true it is also stupid. Anyone who would "invent" an incapacitated Captain at a time when assistance is obviously required by the flying pilot is sick and ought to be purged from the training department post haste.

There is nothing wrong with experimenting with unusual or weird scenarios when there is time during training. That's fun. But, such things while a pilot is being evaluated are rediculous. If a trainee can't meet the standards its unfortunate but there are many ways to end the program and there is no need whatever to deliberately embarrass the failing pilot, nor to use the simulator as a weapon.

Sorry for the rant, but people that do that really bush my button. It's the work of an amateur and and childish. Children have no place in the training department of an airline nor for that matter in the cockpit of an airliner.

Just my .05

 

[Betrouwbaar]

"With all these low-timers thinking they can fly a turbojet aircraft"

Converted to the 744 with 235TT.
Enough Said.
(Still, I think that riddle guy is a bit of an arsehole)

 

[Mugs]

"With all these low-timers thinking they can fly a turbojet aircraft"

Converted to the 744 with 235TT.
Enough Said.
(Still, I think that riddle guy is a bit of an arsehole)

........and, whether you realize it or not, you are dangerous and a burden to your Captain. Enough said.

 

[voteno]

"With all these low-timers thinking they can fly a turbojet aircraft"

Converted to the 744 with 235TT.
Enough Said.
(Still, I think that riddle guy is a bit of an arsehole)

What does a S/O do, on a 744? Kinda reminds me of an ALPA contract at Frontier. S/O on a 737-200.

 

[SYXDude]

"With all these low-timers thinking they can fly a turbojet aircraft"

Converted to the 744 with 235TT.
Enough Said.
(Still, I think that riddle guy is a bit of an arsehole)

What does a S/O do, on a 744?

Probably is a cruise or relief pilot. At 235TT, I'd be surprised if the guy does takeoffs and landings. Probably just sits there in cruise and is a "systems manager assistant".

Just a guess.

Later

 

[Dangerkitty]

"With all these low-timers thinking they can fly a turbojet aircraft"

Converted to the 744 with 235TT.
Enough Said.
(Still, I think that riddle guy is a bit of an arsehole)

Must be real tough learning how to talk on the radio on the 744 and doing nothing else. I am sure I could have done position reports at 50 hours total

 

[Betrouwbaar]

Had that coming...however I'm talking about training here. It is poosible to be converted to a large jet at low hours...

Anyway, who says I'm a burden to the Captain? He/She is usually asleep when I'm flying.

Incidently, most of our position reports are datlinked, so its more like a hundred hours to learn how to type. 50 hours granted, to talk. Typing takes more training. Do they teach that at ERAU?

 

[Betrouwbaar]

And the above poster is correct, no take-offs or landings. However, we have to do the FULL type rating course inclusief? of takeoff, landing, CAT II/III and remain current. The exam we take at the end is the SAME as for CA/FO as we have to be qualified in both seats. SAME standards.
And if you think that is scary, try our collegas at BA, they do the A319 course with low time. They probably are a Burdon to the Captain.
Sorry for the spellling everyone, my English should be better.