Pinnacle Jumpseat

[zonker]

Got bumped the other day in MSP because there wasn't any ballast available. I don't understand why they don't have ballast in a major hub?

I talked to the captain well before the flight, but he couldn't make it work.

 

[undpilot]

Got bumped the other day in MSP because there wasn't any ballast available. I don't understand why they don't have ballast in a major hub?

I talked to the captain well before the flight, but he couldn't make it work.

Pinnacle has no say on what goes on on the ramp in MSP. Mesaba runs the ramp (poorly at best) and Pinnacle's ASA with Northwest requires NW to choose the ground service provider in MSP and DTW. So for now we are stuck with crappy service and no ballast.

 

[de Pez]

Thanks to all the Pinnacle crews who have gone out of their way to get the jumpseaters on over the years. With only one exception they have consistently gone above and beyond what I felt was called for. Most gate agents (typically NW) have been fine also as long as you show up with plenty of time before the departure. Showing up with cookies doesn't hurt either.

 

[Grinder10]

I've heard this in DTW more times than I can count:

Pilot: Flagship 5900 needs ballast at C27.
Ops: We don't have any.
Pilot: You're telling me we have zero ballast at this airport.
Ops: That's right.

 

[PCL_128]

I've heard this in DTW more times than I can count:

Pilot: Flagship 5900 needs ballast at C27.
Ops: We don't have any.
Pilot: You're telling me we have zero ballast at this airport.
Ops: That's right.

I used to get this crap all the time. Just make it clear to the rampers and the gate agent that the airplane won't be moving until they put enough ballast on board to take the jumpseater. "Magically" they'll come up with the ballast rather quickly.

 

[Lyconit]

Could the Pinnacle pilots please pressure your company to add balast to the back of the plane or have sandbags available so that the cockpit JS is open again?

ring ring...
PT:hello?
Crew:hello, PT?, even though you are an a$$clown and I know fuel is only 3 times what it was last year, but you REALLY need to carry more weight (i.e. ballast) around the system on the airplanes so we can commute.
PT:no problem, anything for you guys/gals!
thanks PT, BTW, what's jingle pants phone number?
...
ring ring
JP:hello?
Crew:Hello Jingle Pants? I know there is not enough ramp people in MSP and DTW to load passenger bags, push back airplanes and such, but they REALLY need to spend more time looking for and loading ballast so we can commute.
JP:no problem, the agents were slacking and we were just trying to come up with something else that we can pay them to do! Thanks!

...
ha ha ha ha ...right, you just gave mgmnt another $ saving idea!

 

[redflyer65]

The rules have recently changed to were we use the higher px weights and allow carry on bags which makes the problem that much worse!

In DTW, not just dealing with Mesaba but more times than not DTW will add balast only to never see it come back.

You joke about DTW not having any, but sometimes that's the case. You might see Mesaba balast laying around, but not PCL. (they won't use XJ balast on PCL plane)

 

[j41driver]

Flying out of DTW yesterday dispatch said we needed 1800 in the cargo to get the jumpseater on. Mesaba said there was no ballast available so we had to leave the jumpseater behind. After we left the gate the dispatcher told us to return to the gate to get ballast just for our current load. Magically, Mesaba now had ballast to add to the cargo. Seems to always be a problem in DTW.

Well, did the jumpseater get on?

 

[buckwheat]

I have never left a jumpseater and never will leave a jumpseater. I have got into alot of pissing matches with the gate agents and dispache over getting a jumpseater on so my piss must be stronger. Actually to come think of it I bumped a pax to get a jumpseater on the other day. Pinnacle captains will go out of there way to get a jumpseater on. You come find me and you will never be left behind.

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

I have never left a jumpseater and never will leave a jumpseater. I have got into alot of pissing matches with the gate agents and dispache over getting a jumpseater on so my piss must be stronger. Actually to come think of it I bumped a pax to get a jumpseater on the other day. Pinnacle captains will go out of there way to get a jumpseater on. You come find me and you will never be left behind.

Terrible...

I don't think that's something to brag about...maybe that's just me.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Flying out of DTW yesterday dispatch said we needed 1800 in the cargo to get the jumpseater on. Mesaba said there was no ballast available so we had to leave the jumpseater behind. After we left the gate the dispatcher told us to return to the gate to get ballast just for our current load. Magically, Mesaba now had ballast to add to the cargo. Seems to always be a problem in DTW.

Well, did the jumpseater get on?

Screw that....
I want to know why he left the gate in the first place if he didn't have a legal W&B. Once the aircraft is moved from the gate, the aircraft is legally dispatched. By his statement, he intentionally left the gate with an illegal aircraft. Not too smart McFly.

 

[Grinder10]

Screw that....
I want to know why he left the gate in the first place if he didn't have a legal W&B. Once the aircraft is moved from the gate, the aircraft is legally dispatched. By his statement, he intentionally left the gate with an illegal aircraft. Not too smart McFly.

Pinnacle receives all W&B data via acars. It is very rare to have it before they leave the gate.

 

[undpilot]

Screw that....
I want to know why he left the gate in the first place if he didn't have a legal W&B. Once the aircraft is moved from the gate, the aircraft is legally dispatched. By his statement, he intentionally left the gate with an illegal aircraft. Not too smart McFly.

W&B is done by dispatch. All we have in the aircraft is what the total weight is, not the balance part of the equation.

 

[DoinTime]

Screw that....
I want to know why he left the gate in the first place if he didn't have a legal W&B. Once the aircraft is moved from the gate, the aircraft is legally dispatched.

Your assumption of what constitutes a legal dispatch is inaccurate. You can leave the gate without final W&B data provided you do not exceed a limitation or takeoff prior to getting final data. The vast majority of air carrier operations work this way.

 

[timmay]

I have never left a jumpseater and never will leave a jumpseater. I have got into alot of pissing matches with the gate agents and dispache over getting a jumpseater on so my piss must be stronger. Actually to come think of it I bumped a pax to get a jumpseater on the other day. Pinnacle captains will go out of there way to get a jumpseater on. You come find me and you will never be left behind.

If I would have happened to be the pax that got booted only to watch a jumpseater get on I would have made it my personal goal to see your sorry a@@ fired. Dont forget who pays your salary. I am all for taking a jumpseater but to kick a pax off for a non rev is insane.

 

[NEDude]

The vast majority of air carrier operations work this way.

I remember seeing USAirways aircraft all lined up and ground having to do some fancy maneuvering in PHL due to so many of the airplanes waiting on W&B numbers when it was their turn for the runway. Seems to me a very operationally inefficient way to run things.

 

[DTWFO]

I remember seeing USAirways aircraft all lined up and ground having to do some fancy maneuvering in PHL due to so many of the airplanes waiting on W&B numbers when it was their turn for the runway. Seems to me a very operationally inefficient way to run things.

Since when have the airlines EVER worried about running an efficient operation?? (with the exception of SWA)

 

[silver02ex]

Screw that....
I want to know why he left the gate in the first place if he didn't have a legal W&B. Once the aircraft is moved from the gate, the aircraft is legally dispatched. By his statement, he intentionally left the gate with an illegal aircraft. Not too smart McFly.

The number that dispatch gives us before we leave the gate is an estimate of how much cargo and how many pax we have. I'm guessing the flight had to go back to get balast is because there was probably a pax that got on at the last minute or there was enough in the cargo as predicted.. It's rare that we get the final W&B numbers from ACARS before we block out.

 

[taiar]

"No Ballas for you"

The Bottom line "No Ballas for you"

A few years ago in my previous life I got called into the CP office cause I took a jump seater out of MSP who had been bumped of 2 previous flights. To make a long story short we taxied all the way to 30L in peak hour which took about 45 minutes... still no numbers then the famous "selcall selcall" ...had to come back to the gate for 200lbs of Ballas.

It then turned into a 30 minute pissing contest between me and OPS about giving me ballas...I pulled all our over night bags from the over heads plus asked some pax for carry ons to be put in the cargo in addition to Magazine stacks.... but Ops would not give me ANY.. neither Ballas nor Mags. It became a pissing match that I lost. I tried everything I can.

Later on in the CP office it was explained to me that they actually do have ballas but they reserve it for revenue pax and not for J/S.

I did not argue... just shook my head and walked out.

The end....

 

[DoinTime]

The Bottom line "No Ballas for you"

A few years ago in my previous life I got called into the CP office cause I took a jump seater out of MSP who had been bumped of 2 previous flights. To make a long story short we taxied all the way to 30L in peak hour which took about 45 minutes... still no numbers then the famous "selcall selcall" ...had to come back to the gate for 200lbs of Ballas.

It then turned into a 30 minute pissing contest between me and OPS about giving me ballas...I pulled all our over night bags from the over heads plus asked some pax for carry ons to be put in the cargo in addition to Magazine stacks.... but Ops would not give me ANY.. neither Ballas nor Mags. It became a pissing match that I lost. I tried everything I can.

Later on in the CP office it was explained to me that they actually do have ballas but they reserve it for revenue pax and not for J/S.

I did not argue... just shook my head and walked out.

The end....

What is Ballas?