Pinnacle finally gets fair with AA over jumpseating..

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I'm kinda surprised you think pilots who seek 'self-help' to compel issue resolution is "unprofessional".

Self help at another pilot groups expense?

 

[DoinTime]

Explain why the UAL pilots were obligated to do anything. Where was the UAL pilots responsibility?

This was an issue between the regional carriers, regional pilots and their contract company.

The obligation ALWAYS lies with the pilot group that has the access (or influence) to enact change. In this case the UAL pilot were obligated to fix the problem because they were the only ones capable of getting the problem fixed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The obligation ALWAYS lies with the pilot group that has the access (or influence) to enact change. In this case the UAL pilot were obligated to fix the problem because they were the only ones capable of getting the problem fixed.

I agree that the UAL pilots should have helped becuase they could have.... that doesn't excuse the "tactics" used by the regional jumpseat chairs..

 

[DoinTime]

that doesn't excuse the "tactics" used by the regional jumpseat chairs..

What else would have worked? Diplomacy obviously failed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What else would have worked? Diplomacy obviously failed.

The ends justify the means?

It is not only what is done, but how its done...

 

[DoinTime]

The ends justify the means?

Things that are worth fighting for never come easy. Establishing independence for America didn't come easy, ending slavery didn't come easy, equal rights (for as as far as American has come) hasn't come easy.

Diplomacy has limits and when they have reached their end unpleasant things happen. Just like contract negotiations, when diplomacy comes to an end self help ensues. That is the way of the civilized world and the potential unpleasantries of self help is what keeps diplomacy alive for as long possible.

A document which we both hold so dear has significant relevance here:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't see the regional pilots as revolutionary colonial rebels and the UAL pilots as King George....

I see both pilot groups as equals (each one of 13 colonies) and UAL corp as King George.....

 

[rtmcfi]

The ends justify the means?

It is not only what is done, but how its done...

In the UAX/UAL case, the end result most certainly justified the means. The UAX guys no longer get hosed on their own iron. With the exception of a few guys getting their feelings of supiority shaken, no one got hurt. How many rides did mainline folks get bumped out of?

The nancies that got their feelings hurt were not your typical UAL line pilot. Of the several that I spoke with over the issue, all thought the UAX folks were justified. Bottom line: alls well that ends well. The agreements are now being processed by an improved system. Good luck Pinnacle!

 

[hmmm]

I am not going to take it up with anyone, I don't jumpseat on Pinnacle anymore.

I read the letter very carefully. I am also reading a bunch of posters get giddying about sticking it to AA pilots on their jumpseat.

AA


Maybe you should read some of the other posts on here, I love the one calling the AA FO a biaatch.

Some classy guys you have over there.

Biaaatch

 

[LocoPiloto]

Biaaatch

Get your house in order Pinnacle, or you are not welcome on my jumpseat at FDX.. Your post above is about as pathetic as could be.... PFT at Gulfstream?


Loco

 

[urflyingme?!]

The UAX guys were pissed, the United guys got pissed at the UAX guys for shakin stuff up. They sorted it out. Never had a problem on UAL before, Never have since.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Loco you ignorant fool, how many times a day do FedEx guys jumpseat on 9E out of Memphis. I'd really like to see you deny on your own plane. Your fellow crewmembers would lynch you!!

Do it I dare you

 

[altimaklr]

Loco you ignorant fool, how many times a day do FedEx guys jumpseat on 9E out of Memphis. I'd really like to see you deny on your own plane. Your fellow crewmembers would lynch you!!

Do it I dare you

Ya, don't you love it when people get into business that doesn't even involve them? He must have too much time on his hands not working at Fedex.

 

[silver02ex]

Get your house in order Pinnacle, or you are not welcome on my jumpseat
Loco

Since you don't like 1-2 guy's attitude on flightinfo you are threaten the who pilot group that we might not be able to ride on FDX? Maybe I should find a post of someone with a poor attitude on a FDX thread and use that as my excuse to deny the JS to all FDX guys. I'm sure your fellow pilots at FDX need my j/s a lot more than i need yours.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

How would this thread look if the roles were reversed and it was AA that offered unlimited JS, but Pinnacle only allowed 1 AA JS?

 

[hmmm]

For many years Pinnacle has had a history of extending unlimited jumpseat privileges to any pilot that had an Air Carrier ID. No matter what that carriers reciprical poilicy towards us was. When Delta's JS was closed to everyone we took everyone of their pilots that walked up to our gate. When FedEx's JS was closed to everyone we still took them everytime. When our own code share partner, NWA dicriminated against us and would only take one of our pilots, and then only if no other 121 carrier pilot requested the jumpseat, we still extended unlimited seats to them.

The difference between these carriers and AMR is these pilot groups all worked for us and eventually Pinnacle pilots were extended the same unlimited benefits on those carriers that we extend to them. AMR and APA however have told us, repeatedly, for years, it will never happen. All we will ever have is the policy that AMR currently has in place. If that is the case Pinnacle is going to extend the same reciprocal benefit to APA that they extend to us. It is not a war.

It is not done with hostility but with great hesitation, deliberation and dismay. It is the first time the Pinnacle Jumpseat Committe has not been able to secure the same benefits on a carrier that we extend to them. That Committee has been very, very effective. It has secured more Reciprocal Agreements than most 'major' carriers have.

This needed a bump.

 

[JoeMerchant]

More double standards from Rez....It is OK for Pinnacle to do this...but not for the UAX pilots to stand up to the United pilots....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't see the regional pilots as revolutionary colonial rebels and the UAL pilots as King George....

I see both pilot groups as equals (each one of 13 colonies) and UAL corp as King George.....

Equals Rez? So would you support a DOH or "relative" integration between UAX pilots and United pilots.....Oh you didn't really mean "equals" did you....?

 

[PCL_128]

Well done, PCL pilots. I'm usually opposed to this sort of thing, but this has been a problem since I worked there. You can only be so patient before resorting to other means, and in this case, all you're doing is extending them the exact same benefits that they extend to you. I just hope all of your pilots follow the guidance provided by the Jumpseat Committee. FOs: if you're flying with a Captain that doesn't follow this guidance, speak up about the importance of unity. AMR will fix this if it causes them to have to cover flights with reserves and JAs because their pilots can't get to work.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well now the two biggest ALPA cheerleaders have chimed in...Both think this is OK.....While both opposed the UAX jumpseat action.....Anyone connect the dots yet on why one is OK and the other isn't?