Pinnacle Capt. has Awesome overnight!

[FlyBunny]

If the public knew that a 19-year-old was an FO, many would probably object. Not that they're not able to fly safe - but it's like walking into the surgery room and seeing a 19-year-old doctor. I'm sure they'd be able, but there is a confidence factor that goes beyond accident statistics.

Oh pleaaaaaassseee! Don't even try to comapre pilots' qualifications and skills to a surgeon's. You can't even get in to a Medical School without a 4-year degree and nothing but A+s in 'solid' (unlike backpaking, golf, etc., courses that you can for Aviation degrees). After the 4-year degree, then you compete with an amazing number of people to get in to a Medical School. Afte four years of studying (nothing like few months of aviation training), you get a degree. A further one year of residency and now you're qualified to work as a doctor. To become a surgeon, you need another four to seven years of additional training/schooling.

To become an airline pilot; you can go to ATP, get everything in six months, and within a year, you can become an airline pilot. I know lot of us think of 'ourselves' as highly qualified, but compared to surgeons...well, there's no comparison. No college degree needed to get your Commercial/Instrument/ATP licenses.

Tell me the last time you heard a pilot became a surgeon while working for an airline pilot. I can give you many examples where surgeons/doctors became successful pilots, own and fly their own jets, and even flew for airlines while working as surgeons.

Fire away.

But, please, please, please, do not comapare yourselves to surgeons.

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

I would bet anything that this pilot flew at Gulfstream Academy in FLL before working at Pinnacle. Any takers?

And how about those Continental Airlines pilots who landed on a Taxiway at EWR?

 

[FlyBunny]

Or you can spend $5500 on a 737 type and get hired by SWA. Give the PFT stuff a rest.....GEEESH

Very well said!

Oh no, but we can't really 'touch' when it comes to major airlines, can we? Otherwise, almost everyone at SWA is PTF, aren't they?

Splitbar, you used to write decent posts, what happend?

 

[Turtlesfly]

Oh pleaaaaaassseee! Don't even try to comapre pilots' qualifications and skills to a surgeon's. You can't even get in to a Medical School without a 4-year degree and nothing but A+s in 'solid' (unlike backpaking, golf, etc., courses that you can for Aviation degrees). After the 4-year degree, then you compete with an amazing number of people to get in to a Medical School. Afte four years of studying (nothing like few months of aviation training), you get a degree. A further one year of residency and now you're qualified to work as a doctor. To become a surgeon, you need another four to seven years of additional training/schooling.

To become an airline pilot; you can go to ATP, get everything in six months, and within a year, you can become an airline pilot. I know lot of us think of 'ourselves' as highly qualified, but compared to surgeons...well, there's no comparison. No college degree needed to get your Commercial/Instrument/ATP licenses.

Tell me the last time you heard a pilot became a surgeon while working for an airline pilot. I can give you many examples where surgeons/doctors became successful pilots, own and fly their own jets, and even flew for airlines while working as surgeons.

Fire away.

But, please, please, please, do not comapare yourselves to surgeons.

Bunny

Maybe because I said it was the "public" that would have a problem with it. I even said that most of them fly fine - the problem is that the public always freaks out when they see the pimple faced 20-year-old getting into the cockpit of a controlled rocket when they have no control over it.

The fact that the media runs with it every chance they can means they love to push that idea also

 

[Turtlesfly]

Perhaps.....

However, how you act and respond can make us look bad too..... no?

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

 

[hockeypilot44]

This is all my fault! Well according to some people on here. I also take blame for the PNCL flight and lexington flight as well. Let me explain!

Bradford was a student of mine at GIA

Jesse from PNCL flight that crashed was my captain at one time!
Peter, the FO was also my student at GIA

Jim, FO on the Lexington crash was my instructor at
GIA.

There you have it! Wow there is going to be alot more bad things happening because i instructed over 1,500 pilots that came though GIA and over 400 of them were hiered at PNCL.

Shut up with all the crap about how its GIA fault because years after they left something happend. Funny thing is never had an accident at GIA so it must be the training or lack of training at the other airlines!

Didn't the flight school at Gulfstream get shut down by the FAA due to a midair collision and a couple other reasons?

 

[PCL_128]

Didn't the flight school at Gulfstream get shut down by the FAA due to a midair collision and a couple other reasons?

No, the owner shut it down because it wasn't producing a profit in the first place, and the resultant liability concerns after the collision were the last straw. He had been talking about closing it down for years before that because it never made any money for him. There were never problems with the FAA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

Of course you'd never do anything stupid... and if you did.... you'd expect the rest of us to step far far away from you....

And who decides what is stupid.... we? You? Them?

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

There are over 75,000 pilots in the US. Do you think we are all perfect? Some cheat on their spouses. Some beat their kids. Some do coke. Some contemplate suicide. Some do commit suicide. Some drink too much.

Do you have the ability talk maturely and professionally to someone who asks? I think you do. Learn about HIMS programs and how they work to protect the profession, the company, the passengers and the public... These programs work.

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

No you shouldn't. Be the professional you expect him to have been... that is all you can do...

 

[Lear70]

This is all my fault! Well according to some people on here. I also take blame for the PNCL flight and lexington flight as well. Let me explain!

Bradford was a student of mine at GIA

Jesse from PNCL flight that crashed was my captain at one time!

And didn't know jack squat about high altitude aerodynamics, had ZERO business being in the left seat of that aircraft, and took the F/O (who shouldn't have been in the right seat, either) with him.

Peter, the FO was also my student at GIA

Who was a good kid, was trying very hard, but lacked any real situational awareness or understanding of high altitude aerodynamics either.

I know, he was my F/O on a 3-day about 3 weeks before the accident happened. VERY nice kid, didn't deserve to get killed out of his ignorance, which is why the CAPTAIN is SUPPOSED to know WTF he's doing.

Jim, FO on the Lexington crash was my instructor at
GIA.

Another lack of S.A. accident. I'm sensing a pattern here... (no, I don't really think so, you're just picking some easy targets)

There you have it! Wow there is going to be alot more bad things happening because i instructed over 1,500 pilots that came though GIA and over 400 of them were hiered at PNCL.

Of all the GIA people I flew with, about half a dozen were absolutely STELLAR, knew their systems, knew the procedures, flew by the book, and had decent situational awareness.

The majority of them were "OK", but lacked any real understanding of what the "big picture" was until they had about 500 hours or so in the airplane (about 6 months after O.E.).

A few of them had no business being on the forward side of the flight deck door. ZERO. ZILCH. That's what happens when you put a 300-400 hour wunderkid with SJS in an airliner doing 400 kts coming into the New York airspace. Better if they just shut up and hold the chart most of the time until they catch up with the airplane.

The problem with 19 year old F/O's and 24 year old CA's is that most of them lack the maturity to be left alone unsupervised with a $24 Million aircraft and 50-90 people's lives in their hands. Some are OK, but they're the exception, not the norm.

Then people wonder why they do so much stupid crap on the overnights... I can think of easily half a dozen young PCL pilots who have been canned for stupid hotel or overnight-related antics, some even without a F/A involved. Craziness...

Shut up with all the crap about how its GIA fault because years after they left something happend. Funny thing is never had an accident at GIA so it must be the training or lack of training at the other airlines!

No, it's not GIA's fault. It's their own fault for not knowing what they don't know and the company's fault for not teaching them better and no one's fault at all that a 24 year old in this country is about as mature as a college junior in Europe who just became old enough to drink.

 

[Papps]

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

Dork. Let me know if this Pinnacle pilots drunken blair witch project really makes you loose sleep at night a week from now, or if you were just being a drama queen.

 

[Way2Broke]

Furloughed or fired, what is the difference. Either way your out of money and ideas all at the same time.

 

[Flyer1015]

At least when you're furloughed, it was involuntary, and you can easily get hired somewhere else. If you're fired (especially in a situation like this guy is in), good luck trying to find an aviation job in the US market.

 

[lookin4better]

"The problem with 19 year old F/O's and 24 year old CA's is that most of them lack the maturity to be left alone unsupervised with a $24 Million aircraft and 50-90 people's lives in their hands. Some are OK, but they're the exception, not the norm. "

Lear 70......you totally hit the nail on the head....most of behavior in the regional forum, the terminals and at hotels supports your statement.....a clear lack of professionalisim.

 

[Max Q]

So you're saying that FlightInfo.com is an accurate cross section of the entire regional industry?

What's the median age here in the regional forum?

-Brett

 

[Turtlesfly]

"The problem with 19 year old F/O's and 24 year old CA's is that most of them lack the maturity to be left alone unsupervised with a $24 Million aircraft and 50-90 people's lives in their hands. Some are OK, but they're the exception, not the norm. "

Lear 70......you totally hit the nail on the head....most of behavior in the regional forum, the terminals and at hotels supports your statement.....a clear lack of professionalisim.

Hey I said the same thing and got torn a new one for it from Flybunny!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Lear 70......you totally hit the nail on the head....most of behavior in the regional forum, the terminals and at hotels supports your statement.....a clear lack of professionalisim.

We can't put the entire burden on the individual.

People are a product of their environement. Treat them unprofessionally and pay them unprofessionally and it is most likely they will act unprofessional.

To expect the indivudual to rise above all that and consistently be professional day in and out... is not realistic...

 

[Top Gum]

Now on Letterman's website...


Top Ten Excuses of the Naked Pilot

Top Ten

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/index/php/20080521.phtml

10 "I was just helping her with her bags"

9 "You don't say 'no' to Barbara Walters"

8 "Well Harrisburg is the 'City of Love'"

7 "Come on -- Amtrak engineers run around naked in the woods all the time"

6 "Uh...a bear stole my pants?"

5 "I always get aroused after browsing through the Skymall catalog"

4"So we can't fly drunk or have sex -- what is this, Russia?"

3 No number 3 -- writer still playing Grand Theft Auto 4 on XBox -- will try very hard to have jokes tomorrow

2 "Airline lost my clothes"

1 "I thought it was a layover"

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Pink Floyd said it best...

A restless eye across a weary room
A glazed look and I was on the road to ruin
The music played and played as we whirled without end
No hint, no word her honour to defend

I will, I will she sighed to my request
And then she tossed her mane while my resolve was put to the test
Then drowned in desire, our souls on fire
I lead the way to the funeral pyre
And without a thought of the consequence
I gave in to my decadence

One slip, and down the hole we fall
It seems to take no time at all
A momentary lapse of reason
That binds a life for life
A small regret, you won't forget,
There'll be no sleep in here tonight

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Great Album!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=momentary+lapse+of+reason&search_type=

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Generation Me

We are seeing the result of the baby-boomers having children. Take a look at all the fascinating stories over the years about our "younger" colleagues. This is just the latest one.

As kids, these people were told by parents and teachers that they were special and they could do whatever their little hearts desired. Well guess what? Just because you were coddled to the point where you didn't think "the rules" applied to you, they do!!!!!!!!

You cannot go shag your flight attendant in the woods behind somebody's home and then walk around town naked. You cannot sell stolen company equipment on ebay. You cannot get plastered and smash car windows on the overnight. You cannot go through security and steal a passengers ipod. (I'm sure I have missed some others that we have all talked about)

Society has rules, and unfortunately, some of the Generation Me products are finding out the hard way.

By all means go out and have some fun on the overnight, but use some common sense while doing it.

Look at all the whiners on American Idol that thumb their noses at the judges when they are told they don't have what it takes to be a singer. They talk back, act disrespectful, and storm out of the room in a huff...usually right into the arms of their "reassuring" parents, who inflate their egos again by reminding them how "special and unique" they are.

I'm good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.

 

[Papps]

We are seeing the result of the baby-boomers having children. Take a look at all the fascinating stories over the years about our "younger" colleagues. This is just the latest one.

As kids, these people were told by parents and teachers that they were special and they could do whatever their little hearts desired. Well guess what? Just because you were coddled to the point where you didn't think "the rules" applied to you, they do!!!!!!!!

You cannot go shag your flight attendant in the woods behind somebody's home and then walk around town naked. You cannot sell stolen company equipment on ebay. You cannot get plastered and smash car windows on the overnight. You cannot go through security and steal a passengers ipod. (I'm sure I have missed some others that we have all talked about)

Society has rules, and unfortunately, some of the Generation Me products are finding out the hard way.

By all means go out and have some fun on the overnight, but use some common sense while doing it.

Look at all the whiners on American Idol that thumb their noses at the judges when they are told they don't have what it takes to be a singer. They talk back, act disrespectful, and storm out of the room in a huff...usually right into the arms of their "reassuring" parents, who inflate their egos again by reminding them how "special and unique" they are.

I'm good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.

Could be worse, he could have shown up to the airport wasted like quite a few baby boomer pilots had done in the past. Or got busted for trying to take a ton of coke to Canada like that NWA guy last year.

 

[ultrarunner]

Could be worse, he could have shown up to the airport wasted like quite a few baby boomer pilots had done in the past. Or got busted for trying to take a ton of coke to Canada like that NWA guy last year.

Good point Papps, but Stifler really did hit the nail on the head.

The kids nowadays are all about the ME attitude. They absolutely do NOT think outside the box, and absolutely have NO interest in anything other then their own self-being. Which is fine with me, since they have been cut off...

And they just don't understand why...

Oh well...

 

[Papps]

The majority of the Gen Y kids i flew with were alright, Im guessing that the boomers were the first bratty "me generation" (as it was named), ever since then college age kids have probably been kind of annoying until life kicks them down a few notches. Most people tend to be pretty level headed as they hit 30.

Gen Y will be normal in a few years, and they will have a new group of bratty young kids to blame the worlds problems on.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep, no doubt about it Papps. At times it is fun to watch

 

[zkmayo]

If your going to go down, it might as well be in flames. Seeing that prob alot of us will lose our jobs over the next year, this guy might be laughing his azz off in a couple years over this. This is a great career killer.

If I were him Id argue "Hey you cant fire me, I wasnt embarrassing the company while in uniform. As you know, I wasnt in anything, except for the flight attendant, and that was earlier and consentual."

Thing is, had this been the 1970s, this wouldnt have even made the news. It would have been expected. Not that Im condoning it. Really im not.

 

[AiRegency]

Thing is, had this been the 1970s, this wouldnt have even made the news. It would have been expected. Not that Im condoning it. Really im not.

That's B.S. man. I think you've got the wrong impression of what those guys were all about. My father started flying for Pan Am back in '65 and while it's true that they got away with a lot (they used to actually take the entire galley liquor cart with them to the hotel room for their personal use) I've never heard a single story of gross sexual misconduct in public. They might have done a lot behind closed doors and even in the airplane but it would have been extremely unusual to have anything happen in public. Furthermore, it was well know that if you got arrested and had your airlines name plastered all over the newspapers, then your career would not be intact when released from the clink.

I understand and respect that the ALPA types here are willing to defend this kid. As far as I can tell it's like being a public defender. He has a right to a defense. But at the same time I find it very troubling that few of the ALPA types have really spoken out to clearly condemn these types of actions. If yo don't condemn it then you're essentially reinforcing it.

It's true that pilots have been getting in trouble with booze and girls since the profession began but there have also always been consequences. It's unacceptable, infantile and unprofessional behavior. If you can't accept that then like him, you'll be destined to repeat history and become just another example. This industry is generally pretty good at eventually weeding out the undesireables.

This case in particular should remind everybody of a universal law... Nobody gets a free ride.

 

[PCL_128]

Allow me to be clear: I don't condone his actions at all. Grossly inappropriate, no matter what profession he's a part of. He just doesn't deserve to lose his job over it.

 

[wmuflyguy]

First sign of getting old. You start complaining how the "youngsters" are screwing everything up.

 

[Lear70]

First sign of getting old. You start complaining how the "youngsters" are screwing everything up.

Could be, but even in my 20's when I was a Lear CA (25), a 727 CA (28), then a CRJ CA for PCL (29), I knew better than to go running around naked through the woods on an overnight chasing after a F/A.

The simple fact is that some people are just immature and shouldn't be doing what they're doing. Unfortunately the only real test for maturity is waiting for them to screw up and, by then, it may be too late.

p.s. Yes, I had my "fun" on overnights, too... Enough to know better now not to "fish off the company pier". But it was DEFINITELY behind closed doors, preferably when the trip was over and we were back in domicile away from ANY company involvement.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Could be, but even in my 20's when I was a Lear CA (25), a 727 CA (28), then a CRJ CA for PCL (29), I knew better than to go running around naked through the woods on an overnight chasing after a F/A.

The simple fact is that some people are just immature and shouldn't be doing what they're doing. Unfortunately the only real test for maturity is waiting for them to screw up and, by then, it may be too late.

p.s. Yes, I had my "fun" on overnights, too... Enough to know better now not to "fish off the company pier". But it was DEFINITELY behind closed doors, preferably when the trip was over and we were back in domicile away from ANY company involvement.

Don't get me wrong he screwed up royally, no excuse for what he did, he lacked common sense. I'm responding to all the youngster bashing that has gone on in the last 10 posts or so.