Pinnacle Capt. has Awesome overnight!

[J.Otto]

Judgment is the first thing you lose when drinking alcohol.

Poor guy, Captain at 24 is something to be proud of. Hope his career isn't ruined but the story does sound quite odd and will surely make its way through the circles.

 

[Turtlesfly]

This guy is getting crucified in several different forums. Ask yourself, why do you care so much. Are you just an aviation nerd with nothing better to do than stomp on a guy that is down and out, to make yourself feel better about your miserable regional airline life? Climb back into your holes.

If this guy worked at B.K (another job with low pay and headsets) this wouldn't have made local news.

because he makes YOU LOOK BAD. DUMB ass

 

[Lear70]

The smartest thing this guy could do is resign and go over to China and fly a CRJ there for WASINC or some other contract for a 3-year stint.

He's GOING to get terminated. Count on it. PCL has a "fire first, ask questions later" standing policy. He will then have a termination on his record and, even if he gets his job back, will still have to report the termination on every employment application after that. Yes, there's standing legal precedent that backs that statement, upheld several times in appeals courts.

Going through the process, knowing what I know now, I'm dead serious about this. Terminated is the kiss of death for any good job out there for several years after it happens, even if the termination is provably unwarranted. Trust me on this one.

He's going to be terminated for violating the FOM, drinking within 12 hours of duty report (PCL isn't 8 hours, it's 12), and professional misconduct while on a company-paid layover (PCL has terminated people for that, too).

The Association may or may not be able to get his job back (I seriously doubt it), but it will haunt him the rest of his career. If he resigns first, this all goes away. There will be NO record of it at PCL - he hasn't been disciplined yet, only removed from flying status "on leave pending investigation". There's a jetBlue pilot who was pulled the same way, was GOING to be terminated, he resigned, and has no blemish on his record.

He can then go to work for IBEX or whoever internationally (current and qualified will almost guarantee him a job), on future applications say that he just wanted to see the world while he was still young and single, build time and let people forget this episode for 3 years while this industry recovers from the downturn, then come back to the U.S. at a later date.

By then you'll also have multiple CRJ-200's flying as corporate jets (CL850's, there's going to be lots of them), so he can possibly get into one of those.

If I had a way to get in touch with him directly and try to give him some advice as someone who's trying to fight it and all the angst that goes with it, I'd certainly try to convince him to let it go and live to fly another day.

 

[PCL_128]

With all due respect, Lear, you have no idea when he took his last drink. It's quite possible that it was outside of the 12-hour limit. The only time that Pinnacle has disciplined pilots in relation to their overnight activities involved unprofessional behavior directly with a contractor (hotel), or sexual harassment related activities. This pilot would be well advised to listen to his own legal counsel and not someone on a message board. No one here has all of the facts or is dealing directly with management.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To CFI2766: Reference "News Flash"= EXACTLY!!! The only question in the mind of the flying public is 'How cheap is the ticket.' Period.

The public assumes that all of the high dollar cost are somehow rolled into that price..

Safety
Professionalism
etc....


Don't disapoint them!!

 

[Lear70]

With all due respect, Lear, you have no idea when he took his last drink. It's quite possible that it was outside of the 12-hour limit. The only time that Pinnacle has disciplined pilots in relation to their overnight activities involved unprofessional behavior directly with a contractor (hotel), or sexual harassment related activities. This pilot would be well advised to listen to his own legal counsel and not someone on a message board. No one here has all of the facts or is dealing directly with management.

You're right, I don't know, but I also know that it was pretty dang late when they were caught, they were both drunk at the time, and I'm told that overnight is only about 12 and change anyway...

You also know, as well as I do, that PCL has a terrible track record of enforcing terminations, but terminates people fairly quickly anyway.

You're also right that people shouldn't listen to other people on a message board ALONE, but I'm here to tell you that this sh*t ain't easy. It's heartbreaking, demoralizing, humiliating, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially with an HR group that goes out of its way to sabotage your job efforts, and all that is WITH the knowledge (and medical PROOF) that I didn't do anything wrong.

Not saying he'll suffer any or all of that but, if I was in his shoes, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't take that chance. His circumstances and mine are very different but, if they terminate him, he'll be on the street with 1,000 other unemployed pilots without any other type ratings or job skills to fall back on and, in my opinion, layoffs coming in the Sept/Oct time frame.

His timing couldn't be worse...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

because he makes YOU LOOK BAD. DUMB ass

Perhaps.....

However, how you act and respond can make us look bad too..... no?

 

[atlcrashpad]

This reminds me of an incident a few years back when a Pinnacle FO and Gulfstream "poster boy" was let go after he invited a FA to his hotel room for pizza.

When she knocked on his door he was buck naked holding only the pizza and a pepperoni sausage.

Not sure if he was still wearing his watch.

Which hand had the pizza? Ha.... Bouyyyy.... you go Pea-knuckle.....

 

[s3jetman]

This is all my fault! Well according to some people on here. I also take blame for the PNCL flight and lexington flight as well. Let me explain!

Bradford was a student of mine at GIA

Jesse from PNCL flight that crashed was my captain at one time!
Peter, the FO was also my student at GIA

Jim, FO on the Lexington crash was my instructor at
GIA.

There you have it! Wow there is going to be alot more bad things happening because i instructed over 1,500 pilots that came though GIA and over 400 of them were hiered at PNCL.

Shut up with all the crap about how its GIA fault because years after they left something happend. Funny thing is never had an accident at GIA so it must be the training or lack of training at the other airlines!

 

[greyskyracer]

Hey s3jetman, did you win a few grand in a casino one night in FLL on a bad beat?

 

[FlyBunny]

If the public knew that a 19-year-old was an FO, many would probably object. Not that they're not able to fly safe - but it's like walking into the surgery room and seeing a 19-year-old doctor. I'm sure they'd be able, but there is a confidence factor that goes beyond accident statistics.

Oh pleaaaaaassseee! Don't even try to comapre pilots' qualifications and skills to a surgeon's. You can't even get in to a Medical School without a 4-year degree and nothing but A+s in 'solid' (unlike backpaking, golf, etc., courses that you can for Aviation degrees). After the 4-year degree, then you compete with an amazing number of people to get in to a Medical School. Afte four years of studying (nothing like few months of aviation training), you get a degree. A further one year of residency and now you're qualified to work as a doctor. To become a surgeon, you need another four to seven years of additional training/schooling.

To become an airline pilot; you can go to ATP, get everything in six months, and within a year, you can become an airline pilot. I know lot of us think of 'ourselves' as highly qualified, but compared to surgeons...well, there's no comparison. No college degree needed to get your Commercial/Instrument/ATP licenses.

Tell me the last time you heard a pilot became a surgeon while working for an airline pilot. I can give you many examples where surgeons/doctors became successful pilots, own and fly their own jets, and even flew for airlines while working as surgeons.

Fire away.

But, please, please, please, do not comapare yourselves to surgeons.

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

I would bet anything that this pilot flew at Gulfstream Academy in FLL before working at Pinnacle. Any takers?

And how about those Continental Airlines pilots who landed on a Taxiway at EWR?

 

[FlyBunny]

Or you can spend $5500 on a 737 type and get hired by SWA. Give the PFT stuff a rest.....GEEESH

Very well said!

Oh no, but we can't really 'touch' when it comes to major airlines, can we? Otherwise, almost everyone at SWA is PTF, aren't they?

Splitbar, you used to write decent posts, what happend?

 

[Turtlesfly]

Oh pleaaaaaassseee! Don't even try to comapre pilots' qualifications and skills to a surgeon's. You can't even get in to a Medical School without a 4-year degree and nothing but A+s in 'solid' (unlike backpaking, golf, etc., courses that you can for Aviation degrees). After the 4-year degree, then you compete with an amazing number of people to get in to a Medical School. Afte four years of studying (nothing like few months of aviation training), you get a degree. A further one year of residency and now you're qualified to work as a doctor. To become a surgeon, you need another four to seven years of additional training/schooling.

To become an airline pilot; you can go to ATP, get everything in six months, and within a year, you can become an airline pilot. I know lot of us think of 'ourselves' as highly qualified, but compared to surgeons...well, there's no comparison. No college degree needed to get your Commercial/Instrument/ATP licenses.

Tell me the last time you heard a pilot became a surgeon while working for an airline pilot. I can give you many examples where surgeons/doctors became successful pilots, own and fly their own jets, and even flew for airlines while working as surgeons.

Fire away.

But, please, please, please, do not comapare yourselves to surgeons.

Bunny

Maybe because I said it was the "public" that would have a problem with it. I even said that most of them fly fine - the problem is that the public always freaks out when they see the pimple faced 20-year-old getting into the cockpit of a controlled rocket when they have no control over it.

The fact that the media runs with it every chance they can means they love to push that idea also

 

[Turtlesfly]

Perhaps.....

However, how you act and respond can make us look bad too..... no?

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

 

[hockeypilot44]

This is all my fault! Well according to some people on here. I also take blame for the PNCL flight and lexington flight as well. Let me explain!

Bradford was a student of mine at GIA

Jesse from PNCL flight that crashed was my captain at one time!
Peter, the FO was also my student at GIA

Jim, FO on the Lexington crash was my instructor at
GIA.

There you have it! Wow there is going to be alot more bad things happening because i instructed over 1,500 pilots that came though GIA and over 400 of them were hiered at PNCL.

Shut up with all the crap about how its GIA fault because years after they left something happend. Funny thing is never had an accident at GIA so it must be the training or lack of training at the other airlines!

Didn't the flight school at Gulfstream get shut down by the FAA due to a midair collision and a couple other reasons?

 

[PCL_128]

Didn't the flight school at Gulfstream get shut down by the FAA due to a midair collision and a couple other reasons?

No, the owner shut it down because it wasn't producing a profit in the first place, and the resultant liability concerns after the collision were the last straw. He had been talking about closing it down for years before that because it never made any money for him. There were never problems with the FAA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

Of course you'd never do anything stupid... and if you did.... you'd expect the rest of us to step far far away from you....

And who decides what is stupid.... we? You? Them?

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

There are over 75,000 pilots in the US. Do you think we are all perfect? Some cheat on their spouses. Some beat their kids. Some do coke. Some contemplate suicide. Some do commit suicide. Some drink too much.

Do you have the ability talk maturely and professionally to someone who asks? I think you do. Learn about HIMS programs and how they work to protect the profession, the company, the passengers and the public... These programs work.

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

No you shouldn't. Be the professional you expect him to have been... that is all you can do...

 

[Lear70]

This is all my fault! Well according to some people on here. I also take blame for the PNCL flight and lexington flight as well. Let me explain!

Bradford was a student of mine at GIA

Jesse from PNCL flight that crashed was my captain at one time!

And didn't know jack squat about high altitude aerodynamics, had ZERO business being in the left seat of that aircraft, and took the F/O (who shouldn't have been in the right seat, either) with him.

Peter, the FO was also my student at GIA

Who was a good kid, was trying very hard, but lacked any real situational awareness or understanding of high altitude aerodynamics either.

I know, he was my F/O on a 3-day about 3 weeks before the accident happened. VERY nice kid, didn't deserve to get killed out of his ignorance, which is why the CAPTAIN is SUPPOSED to know WTF he's doing.

Jim, FO on the Lexington crash was my instructor at
GIA.

Another lack of S.A. accident. I'm sensing a pattern here... (no, I don't really think so, you're just picking some easy targets)

There you have it! Wow there is going to be alot more bad things happening because i instructed over 1,500 pilots that came though GIA and over 400 of them were hiered at PNCL.

Of all the GIA people I flew with, about half a dozen were absolutely STELLAR, knew their systems, knew the procedures, flew by the book, and had decent situational awareness.

The majority of them were "OK", but lacked any real understanding of what the "big picture" was until they had about 500 hours or so in the airplane (about 6 months after O.E.).

A few of them had no business being on the forward side of the flight deck door. ZERO. ZILCH. That's what happens when you put a 300-400 hour wunderkid with SJS in an airliner doing 400 kts coming into the New York airspace. Better if they just shut up and hold the chart most of the time until they catch up with the airplane.

The problem with 19 year old F/O's and 24 year old CA's is that most of them lack the maturity to be left alone unsupervised with a $24 Million aircraft and 50-90 people's lives in their hands. Some are OK, but they're the exception, not the norm.

Then people wonder why they do so much stupid crap on the overnights... I can think of easily half a dozen young PCL pilots who have been canned for stupid hotel or overnight-related antics, some even without a F/A involved. Craziness...

Shut up with all the crap about how its GIA fault because years after they left something happend. Funny thing is never had an accident at GIA so it must be the training or lack of training at the other airlines!

No, it's not GIA's fault. It's their own fault for not knowing what they don't know and the company's fault for not teaching them better and no one's fault at all that a 24 year old in this country is about as mature as a college junior in Europe who just became old enough to drink.

 

[Papps]

Sorry I actually got mad that somebody's dumb actions make you and me both look bad as a profession.

"So did you hear about that pilot who . . . . what do you think of him? Are you like that? Do you know him . . . "

So it goes. I guess I shouldn't get mad about petty stuff like that, right?

Dork. Let me know if this Pinnacle pilots drunken blair witch project really makes you loose sleep at night a week from now, or if you were just being a drama queen.