Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[suupah]

So how about all the barely legal 18 year old flight attendents right from high school. No work history or brains for that matter that colgan hires, personally by chuck. You guys from 9E wanna take a slice off them? Wait untill the dude from MSNBC petafile show walks out of the LAV that needs service and asks, "Enjoying the flight"? Then ask you so why do you work here? Then you try to explain she hit the call button to ask if you are busy? "Just to say Hi? and like ummmm and stuff......." Then the dude can ask did you know she was only 17? I will say no I thought 18 since she works at COLGAN.....

 

[suupah]

30West............................? If we needed back up in the IAD parking lot I hope you would be there.....Hell ya

 

[beechcowboy]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

 

[Smarta$$]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

Good post.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'd be interested in reading that. Where can I find it?

Notice how I responded without resorting to playground antics? That's how professional pilots act.

No, you started your first post with playground antics by saying we were on a soapbox and being inaccurate.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

DEATH TO PARAGRAPHS!

(liked the message though...)

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Beechcowboy you are a sellout. Why would you leave that close to upgrade? You are obviously a moron. PIC time is what is important. I think the problem is there is nobody in this company who has the balls to stand up and talk union stuff. It would be very interesting to see union talk start around here. I just don't see it happening without some serious outside intervention. We all need to be informed big time as well and not just through flight info. If a vote would happen today I bet the union would be turned down. I don't know if ALPA plans on approaching us somehow and at the same time majorly informing us but that is the way to go. Posting stuff on flight info and threatening us that we will be the next GO jets isn't going to work with this pilot group. We didnt ask for this crap. Most of us think who the hell cares change won't happen that quick and by the time it does we will have moved on. So if there is anyone out there who is really serious about this you better start moving now and find a way to educuate us all quickly.

 

[Lear70]

Posting stuff on flight info and threatening us that we will be the next GO jets isn't going to work with this pilot group. We didnt ask for this crap. Most of us think who the hell cares change won't happen that quick and by the time it does we will have moved on. So if there is anyone out there who is really serious about this you better start moving now and find a way to educuate us all quickly.

Undoubtedly you are correct, and this is NOT the approach to take from an ADVERSARIAL standpoint, but I don't see too many people BEING adversarial, just being blunt (which does have a tendency to p*ss people off).

I see a LOT of people being defensive, though.

It's not personal, it's a professional interest that has direct bearing on our personal life in terms of income, time off, etc that can be wihpsawed against another group and turn a really decent place into a real sh*thole.

We've seen this before. MANY of us have a LOT of experience in this type of acquisition; my suggestion would be to listen WITHOUT forming an opinion, then sleep on it, then read it again and start applying it to your situation.

Yeah, a lot of toolboxes come out on both sides of any debate - this is the internet, toolboxes abound.

There's also a lot of good information out here and quite a few reps post under various names, trying to keep people informed. If you listen closely, you'll hear them.

Last point: I would like you to think very closely about your last statement above:

Go WHERE?

You're going to "get your time and get out", something THOUSANDS of regional pilots have said before you. Yet you see guys hang around for YEARS and then leave for YET ANOTHER REGIONAL before they get on with a major.

Why is that, do you think?

Food for thought: quite possibly it takes more than the minimum 1000 hours turbine PIC to be seriously looked at with another airline.

A major airline will hire a VERY small number, maybe 1-2% of their total new-hires, with just the bare minimums IF that person has two dozen personal letters of recommendation from Chief Pilots, VP's, or board members.

If you don't have that, you're more than likely going to be competing with the THOUSANDS of pilots who have 4,000-10,000 hours, half of which is PIC Turbine, often PIC Jet time, most of which will have at least ONE recommendation letter to more than one major airline.

Have you ever been to an AIR, Inc conference? THAT'S your competition. THOUSANDS milling around fighting for the few hundred MAJOR jobs available that year.

How does your flight time compare? You might be at Colgan longer than "getting your time and getting out."

Just a thought.

 

[TA/RA]

CAN YOU SAY " BIGSKY MESABA" There is always a way around the law. Case in point... The current Bankruptcy laws. They are going to to to bang you guys just like they are trying to bang us. We have this thing called the Bigsky scope at Mesaba. If a judge overrules it, do you actually expect managment to stick by it... Hell No. Good luck.

I hate to point this out to you if you didn't get it already, but you did get banged.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The simple truth is that we are all along for the ride on this one. I understand the Colgan folks feelings about all of this, but you have to realize that PCL doesn't invest in anything just to leave it alone. As a matter of fact, we have to expect that their intentions are deceiving and dishonest because that is the track record that they have established for themselves. Please understand that no pilot here at PCL is interested in taking away anything from you, but we will defend at all cost from PCL management to create an "alterego"
This pilot group doesn't have any experience with mergers and acquisitions and that is why our MEC has gone to ALPA national for help, We believe that our scope language is strong (That is why management tried to change it on their numerous, inadequate proposals) Neither of us knows for sure where this will go, but I believe that the best way is to tackle this together. I understand your resilience to unionized labor (Myself being a critic of ALPA big time) But, in all this unknown road that you and us are about to embark on, there is one thing for sure. We need protection from this management (And your pilot group is at the most vulnerable right now, I don't think that you would want to become another Go Jet? Would you?)
Your world has change along with ours for the worst If afraid. Together is the only way to face the challenges that lay ahead.